Multiple EGC's under one lug

Status
Not open for further replies.
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I was red tagged today for multiple EGC's under one terminal of a main breaker panel neutral buss bar. Specifically, it was a Square D, QO, 150 amp main breaker panel. As those of you who use these panels know, there are never enough terminals to land just one EGC per terminal when you have a fully loaded panel. We all know that landing 2 neutrals under the same screw is a no-no but 2 or 3 EGC's ???

Isn't #8 or #6 stranded a form of multiple wires under the same terminal ? Are multiple EGC's permitted or am I way out of line on this ?

Phil,
Gold Star Electric
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Phil the Square D grounding terminals that I usually see are rated for one or two solid 12 or 14 AWGs.

I have never seen a terminal listed for more than two conductors. I kind of agree with you about 6 AWG or 8 AWG and also if you look inside almost any listed equipment (like HVAC) you will find terminals that are stuffed with conductors.

That aside we have to follow the listing on the grounding bars.
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Originally posted by goldstar:



Isn't #8 or #6 stranded a form of multiple wires under the same terminal ?
...am I way out of line on this ?
Click to expand...
ummm, ya....I think you are way off the line.
:D
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

I worked on an old ITE panel today that allowed 3 #14 or #12 equipment grounding conductors to be placed under one terminal on the bar.
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Phil I think you are ok but you have to look at the panel label.

This is the very reason I always add an equipment ground bar to every panel. Some guys on this site don't like them because they don't look neat. :roll:

Marc's got it on the Siemens panels. Even the new ones allow up to three solid #14 egcs and two maybe three solid #12s.

[ November 08, 2005, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

While some permt it i really rather aviod it.Problem is on service or remodel the risk of undoing a set screw is rather risky.How can you be shore no fault currents are on any of them ? Now the inspector is on the other side of the fence.All he can inforce is the specs on that panel.So read what it says ,2 most likely are allowed.But 3 i rather dought.
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Jim ,This is exactly what it says;

"Ground Bar Wire Size

Copper
one #14- #4 AWG and Two or Three
#14- #10 AWG "

This is under the heading " Terminals" and after this statement;

"When used as service equipment, all unused neutral branch terminals can be used as equipment grounding wire terminals.
These terminals can be identified by the green or bare grounding wire and will accept the wire sizes listed under "Ground Bar Wire Size"

Doubt not , it is in black and white
:)
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Then get out the egss if he writes you up.And send a bill to the AHJ for your time to teach them and check out why they flunked you. I threatened that once and all my inspections started to pass except any clear violations in black and white.Let the chief know that anytime you have a questionable tag that his phone will ring and magic happens.Word gets around fast to back off on BIG BAD JIM :D :D :D
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Marc, join the group, we all wonder what Jim is saying when he posts. :D

I think it has something to do with the water in Tampa. ;)

Roger
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Jim, that may be true, but even with my attitude considered, I would ask that you translate your post so that we can understand it. :D

For example, what does
Then get out the egss
Click to expand...
mean? :D

Roger
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Oh my gosh i miss spelled eggs and that confused you.So sorry that made the post so un understandable. :roll: :roll: :roll:
English class starts Monday .
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Originally posted by jimwalker:
English class starts Monday .
Click to expand...
Good for you Jim, maybe you will be sitting next to some of your spanish speaking peers.
icon14.gif


Roger

[ November 08, 2005, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Jim , it may be a regional thing but I have no clue as to what you are saying in this post.
You are the one who doubted what I had said , as it
turns out I was mistaken, you can put up to three # 10 copper AWG equipment grounding conductors under the terminal.

"Get out the eggs"?? I have never heard this expression before.

I also never commented on whether or not one would be justified in billing an AHJ nor did I say I would teach them anything .
I offered a little information to Phil.
Why? Because it just so happened that today I read the label on a panel I was working in.
Why ? because I needed to put three #12 epuip. grd conductors under one terminal screw and wanted to be sure it was O.K.
That is all.

"Threatened"??
How about talking?
You know , We don't have to be loud mouthed jerks to be heard by inspectors , most I have met are good folks just doing a job. If Phil could , in a non confrontational way "teach " this inspector , that would be a good thing.

Originally posted by jimwalker:

Then get out the egss if he writes you up.And send a bill to the AHJ for your time to teach them and check out why they flunked you. I threatened that once and all my inspections started to pass except any clear violations in black and white.Let the chief know that anytime you have a questionable tag that his phone will ring and magic happens.Word gets around fast to back off on BIG BAD JIM :D :D :D
Click to expand...
 
Re: Multiple EGC's under one lug

Problem is on service or remodel the risk of undoing a set screw is rather risky. How can you be shore no fault currents are on any of them ?
Click to expand...
Oh Um maybe because no breakers have tripped?
I don't like moving bare grounds around in a panel if the main is on, But thats my preference, they like to make a big mess out of the busses. :D

Sorry Jim I couldn't resist. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top