My sons

[kwired]

Whoa let's not throw a whole generation under the bus because of person. If you think they have a lousy work ethic just remember who their parents are and taught them everything they know

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I think it is a environment change coupled with parents, teachers, and media saying to be anyone in society you must go to a 4 year college and have desk job with a 25 sqaure feet cubical. But the newer generation has push the bounds of work smarter not harder and are very collaborative with customer which should form strong relationships. Just my thoughts on the situation. By the way I am 27 and I agree the dynamic workforce moving away from hands can only be a benefit to the ones in that career field. Less competition typically means more money and better employee benefits.

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It is not just your generation and is a trend that was already started when I was a kid - it has just continued to progress.

Opportunities for kids to learn good blue collar work ethics has almost vanished during this time as well, we won't let them do anything because it is too dangerous. Some things are understandable, but they still need to have some opportunities as well. If their parents didn't have to do some of those jobs when they were young, why would they ever push their kids to do such things? Those that are self motivated probably were pushed in some way when they were younger, or they were smart enough to realize some things when they did get older.

 

[electricalist]

When i was a kid our peer group was allowed to define us so if i was in school and couldnt or wouldnt keep up i felt the presure and this was same at work, right or wrong you found a way to get on their level.
These days my daughter goes to school with the belief that if she does just as little as the laziest kid in her class that everything is ok. God forbid the other kids razz her for not running fast like them, cause now thats bullying.
Ive seldom met anyone under 20 lately that even thinks they have to work.

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[cowboyjwc]

My son works for a general contractor who has a son that's a year younger than mine, but they found out pretty quick that they can't work together. My son on the other hand was thrilled with the chance to learn something and has really stepped it up.

His grandmother called the other day and needed a bunch of repairs (new mail box and post, replace ceiling fan, repair water damaged ceiling, etc.) so I went over with him and talked him through the ceiling fan replacement, showed him what he needed to get to replace the mail box, told him what might be wrong with the garage door opener, talked him through repairing the weather strip on the bottom of her door, let him know that the drywall job and the wood rot job were a little out of his league right now, but he knew who to call to do it for her, oh and replaced her thermostat. I didn't even have to get my hands dirty.

There really isn't anyone out there who wants to come home tired and dirty anymore, I'm pretty proud of our son, because he's actually much happier when he does and the money's about twice minimum wage, so he likes that. I think he's pretty proud of himself too.

I still like to point out buildings or houses that I've worked on. The sense of accomplishment is what I always liked.

 

[Barbqranch]

I think he's pretty proud of himself too.

As well he should be.

 

[qcroanoke]

There really isn't anyone out there who wants to come home tired and dirty anymore, I'm pretty proud of our son, because he's actually much happier when he does and the money's about twice minimum wage, so he likes that. I think he's pretty proud of himself too.

I still like to point out buildings or houses that I've worked on. The sense of accomplishment is what I always liked.

My son also has stepped into the wonderful world of electrical work. He loves it!
I was not really happy about the choice but I've relented since he seems to really like it.
As you say Cowboy no one wants to come home tired and dirty anymore but by gosh someone has to!
And like you I like pointing out houses that my Dad and I wired or worked in. And a lot of buildings around town that at one time or another I've been in on a service call.
I'm to old for most of it now but I still have people call wanting me to do things for them.
Some things I'll do and others I just explain that it's not really something I want to do anymore. Especially if it involves a crawlspace or attic. .....

 

[jaylectricity]

The notion that "this" generation has bad work ethic is funny. OK, yes, sure, some do. And why not? It's easier than ever to make money doing something totally worthless. There are guys that do nothing but make youtube videos of themselves playing video games that clear a million a year.

But here's the thing. Construction will always be a thing. Even if we build the bejeezus outta this planet, nothing lasts forever. We will always need somebody to fix it back up.

So let's say this generation lets the buildings go to poop. This generation also heavily relies on comfortable buildings to do their computer stuff. So the demand for construction trades will go way up and anybody willing to get off their butt and do it will be raking in the bucks.

Like nature, construction is cyclical.

 

[kwired]

So let's say this generation lets the buildings go to poop. This generation also heavily relies on comfortable buildings to do their computer stuff. So the demand for construction trades will go way up and anybody willing to get off their butt and do it will be raking in the bucks.

We are already there, but those raking in the bucks are the general conractors, or the owners of the specialty services, those doing the brunt of the dirty work are those with somewhat minimal pay, and even the seasonal type jobs. Problem with younger people is they want to go straight to the top level and bypass learning a skill or trade.

 

[iwire]

We are already there, but those raking in the bucks are the general conractors, or the owners of the specialty services, those doing the brunt of the dirty work are those with somewhat minimal pay, and even the seasonal type jobs. Problem with younger people is they want to go straight to the top level and bypass learning a skill or trade.

You are missing the point

If the general contractors and sub contractors can't get people to do the hands on dirty work the pay rates will increase until they get people to do the work.

For example in the dot com boom days the company I was working for gave away a new Ford F150 to the employee who brought in the most new hires. The sign on bonuses for new hires where high.

The same things will happen if needed buildings are not getting constructed.

 

[kwired]

You are missing the point

If the general contractors and sub contractors can't get people to do the hands on dirty work the pay rates will increase until they get people to do the work.

For example in the dot com boom days the company I was working for gave away a new Ford F150 to the employee who brought in the most new hires. The sign on bonuses for new hires where high.

The same things will happen if needed buildings are not getting constructed.

Am I? Today's younger people won't take those jobs, or will not stay very long, so they are filled by immigrant workers (some legal some not), and/or the next generation or two that will work for the lower wages because compared to what their experiences were they are still living a good life. This applies to more then just construction work.

I am not seeing many immigrant workers in the electrical field - but that may be different if you get onto much larger scale projects then I am typically involved with, but even then they will typically be general labor type of help with little technical knowledge of the electrical field.

I agree that supply/demand works though.

 

[chris1971]

Worker shortage = higher pay until the economy goes into a recession again then we'll have an over abundance of workers.

 

[kwired]

Worker shortage = higher pay until the economy goes into a recession again then we'll have an over abundance of workers.

And no demand for the finished product so still no open worker positions and maybe even some layoffs of what workers you do have.

 

[electricalist]

Ive met more electricians with grandfathered j cards than ones who passed the test.
We went from a shortage to everyone has a j card... Almost everyone.

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[kwired]

Ive met more electricians with grandfathered j cards than ones who passed the test.
We went from a shortage to everyone has a j card... Almost everyone.

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How does enforcement of the laws play a part in that?

Around here they started inspecting new services in dwelling units in early 1990's. Before then dwellings were a free for all in a way, though state law still said you needed to be licensed to do electrical work for hire, no AHJ was actively enforcing the laws in the dwelling units because no permits were required to send them to these dwellings. There were all kinds of unlicensed people doing work before then, and still took a few years to weed them out if they didn't pursue getting a license.

 

[peter d]

I am not seeing many immigrant workers in the electrical field - but that may be different if you get onto much larger scale projects then I am typically involved with, but even then they will typically be general labor type of help with little technical knowledge of the electrical field.

Same here, and I live in a so-called "sanctuary state" which has a high number of illegal residents. Electrical work requires a license and apprenticeship (at least in my state), technical skills, English proficiency and ability to understand highly technical language and terms. A poorly educated person from Guatemala or Mexico who lacks language and technical skills is going to be hard pressed to make it in the electrical trade. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but it's an extremely uphill battle. That's why most illegals do low skill and low pay jobs here.

 

[electricalist]

My only point was a master could sign off on anyones hrs and they did, so now there are many companies whos foundation is grandfathered j men and those same masters now get paid by them to pull permits.

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[kwired]

Same here, and I live in a so-called "sanctuary state" which has a high number of illegal residents. Electrical work requires a license and apprenticeship (at least in my state), technical skills, English proficiency and ability to understand highly technical language and terms. A poorly educated person from Guatemala or Mexico who lacks language and technical skills is going to be hard pressed to make it in the electrical trade. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but it's an extremely uphill battle. That's why most illegals do low skill and low pay jobs here.

Pretty much what I see as well. Now when it comes to electricians, those that are younger maybe go to a school and learn some stuff but then think they are going to advance to the top almost immediately. Sure you can be a journeyman in only four or five years, but no matter how book smart you are you need some experience in the work environment before you are ready to make another step up the ladder, unless maybe you plan to limit yourself to one specific area, say residential and up to four family units only, maybe you can do so with less experience. But the changes in dwellings the past few code cycles hasn't made dwelling unit work any simpler - but if we end up AFCI for all 120 volt circuits as it looks like we will for 2017 - good or bad it is somewhat simplified again.

 

[ptonsparky]

We had a couple guys from the small town my shop is in go to tech school, but learned the start wage was less than the going farm labor rate.

 

[kwired]

We had a couple guys from the small town my shop is in go to tech school, but learned the start wage was less than the going farm labor rate.

Just recently or in the past few years? I guess livestock production jobs maybe could be in higher demand right now, not so sure crop production jobs are like they have been in more recent years, but is still some needs.

 

[ptonsparky]

Just recently or in the past few years? I guess livestock production jobs maybe could be in higher demand right now, not so sure crop production jobs are like they have been in more recent years, but is still some needs.

Several years ago. Time flies.