My wife got shocked!

[S'mise]

I see what you mean George, if the dryer is grounded to Neutral then you would think it should trip the breaker if there is a ground fault at the dryer. The neutral is likely the source of the 46volts from unballanced loads and it is bonded to the frame. It sounds to me like the dryer is wired wrong. The dryer frame should be bonded to ground not neutral. Joe is an electrician so I am sure he will find the problem. Or I should say problems (the house).

I still say the washer is grounded somehow or people would not be getting poked.

 

[haskindm]

Was the main service panel properly converted to a sub-panel? Are the grounds and neutrals separated? If not, everything that is connected to a grounding conductor will be carrying neutral current.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

haskin-- joes second post says there is no "GEC" from the main panel to the sub panel. I believe he meant no "EGC".

 

[marshallf3]

DMM stands for Digital Multimeter meaning it can be used to measure ohms as well.

Unlpug both appliances, verify that you essentially have infinity ohms from both the line and neutral to the exposed metal as well as continuity for the ground leg.

I would also investigate the incoming water sources as not being fully grounded.

 

[JohnJ0906]

It sounds to me like the dryer is wired wrong. The dryer frame should be bonded to ground not neutral.

250.140 exception

Prior to NEC 96 (?), dryers and ranges often used the neutral as EGC

This is assuming the dryer is 120/240

 

[S'mise]

DMM stands for Digital Multimeter meaning it can be used to measure ohms as well.

Unlpug both appliances, verify that you essentially have infinity ohms from both the line and neutral to the exposed metal as well as continuity for the ground leg.

I would also investigate the incoming water sources as not being fully grounded.

Might be wise to clarify that you mean "At the attachment plug of the applianes' Not the outlet :grin:

Btw, it won't be infinity, but yes, high resistance between line and neutral. There should be a ground strap that ties the Neutral to the frame on a 3 wire dryer. So you should get 0 ohms between the neutral pin on the plug and the frame of the dryer. If reads resistance between line pins and the frame you've got a faulted dryer.



John, the exeption noted. Nevertheless frame should be grounded

 

[jacobsond]

I am an appliance repair guy and a low volt installer.I hope I can help. Newer washers come with 3prong cords the ground pin is of course connected to the frame of the appliance. In a 2 wire system using the adaptor could line and neutral be reversed? As far as I know there is nothing connected to the case of the washer but the ground.As far as the dryer goes the case is connected to the neutral. Power to the heater is direct connected to one side of the line and the other side goes through the timer and a switch in the motor.A heater short to the case usually has 3 symptoms.Constant heat even with at allpiance shut off little or no heat or breaker tripping.If the neutral is connected properly there should be no voltage on the case.On a 3 wire setup make sure the jumper on the neutral is connected to the case. If it isnt a heater fault can energize the case! On a 4 wire setup the jumper is removed so the ground can be connected to the case.In my humble opion I think the fault is with the neutral either at the dryer connection the pannel or the POCO. The dryer neutral would be an easy check and IMO the least likley.

 

[ceknight]

Hey, Joe, got an update for us?

 

[JohnConnolly]

Hey! My first shock came from a dryer when I was about 6 years old. Instead of fixing it, my Dad just told us not to touch it.

Open neutrals are "funny". That's where I would start.




Years ago my wife told me she was getting shocked in the SHOWER! That seems dangerous. I used the same shower and never felt a thing so I wrote it off to crazy chick syndrome.

Oh yeah. I showered in the morning, she showered at night.

I changed my routine and took a shower one night and BAM...I felt it. I put my wiggy between the shower handset and shower drain....120V.:-?

The next morning I discovered that old house= no water bond + landscape lights fed with UF romex (NOT my installation)+ nicked and eventually burned thru neutral=120V returning thru the water piping at night (photocelled circuit).

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Hey! My first shock came from a dryer when I was about 6 years old. Instead of fixing it, my Dad just told us not to touch it.

Open neutrals are "funny". That's where I would start.




Years ago my wife told me she was getting shocked in the SHOWER! That seems dangerous. I used the same shower and never felt a thing so I wrote it off to crazy chick syndrome.

Oh yeah. I showered in the morning, she showered at night.

I changed my routine and took a shower one night and BAM...I felt it. I put my wiggy between the shower handset and shower drain....120V.:-?

The next morning I discovered that old house= no water bond + landscape lights fed with UF romex (NOT my installation)+ nicked and eventually burned thru neutral=120V returning thru the water piping at night (photocelled circuit).

Did that cure the crazy chick syndrome? :-D

 

[George Stolz]

The next morning I discovered that old house= no water bond + landscape lights fed with UF romex (NOT my installation)+ nicked and eventually burned thru neutral=120V returning thru the water piping at night (photocelled circuit).

There's something odd about your math - why did the water pipe get energized?

I understand that without a water bond to provide a fault current path, it would not open an OCPD if energized - but I don't see how the landscape lights energized the pipe?

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I understand that without a water bond to provide a fault current path, it would not open an OCPD if energized - but I don't see how the landscape lights energized the pipe?

I'm curious too George. I'd also be curious as to how a difference in potential was developed between the drain and the shower head.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

There's something odd about your math - why did the water pipe get energized?

Was it the water pipe or the drain pipe that was energized?

 

[cowboyjwc]

So, did we ever figure out what was wrong?

 

[JohnConnolly]

In my shower shock scenario I never really figured it out. I remember deleting the burned neutral wiring outside and making the problem go away.

I am pretty sure that the voltage came FROM the water pipe VS the drain.

10-15 years ago:-? :-? :-?

Maybe the voltage jumped to the ground wire in the UF and somehow managed to find it's way to the water piping via.....?????

PS. She is still as crazy as ever.

 

[benaround]

I say the dryer was wired in at the original service panel, now that panel is a

' sub-panel ' , NEC states that to hook up a dryer 3 wire, it must originate

in the main service panel. WHY ? because of the N/Gr. bond, The circuit to

the dryer must be changed to a 4 wire IMO.

 

[haskindm]

Frank,
Look at 250.140(3) again. It says the branch circuit must originate at the service IF using an uninsulated neutral as part of SE Cable. If the neutral is insulated (I don't know if it is in this case) then it may originate at a sub-panel, unless I am missing something.

 

[benaround]

Haskindm,

You are totally correct, it's these kind of updates ( for me ) that stick in my

head for awhile. Maybe the dryer just needs a bonding jumper from the

neutral terminal to the frame? Thanks!!

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

quick update

quick update

Sorry for taking so long...
I have been working day and night.

Long story short, The POCO after testing their lines twice, (I was not satisfied with the first test, megger) found a loose neutral. They fixed it and the difference in potential vanished.

Maybe later I can go into more details. Gotta work

 

[cowboyjwc]

Dang George nailed it first thing.

Good job!

Though I didn't answer I'm sure I agreed.