Near????

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Rick 0920

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Electrical Instructor
What does "near" mean in the NEC when worded as something needs to be located near to something else? Why is this left wide open for problems? Is near 30"?
24" 12"? My definition of near might not be yours? Art 210.70 (A) (1) in the 2020 NEC states as a revision no less; "The wall mounted control device shall be located NEAR an entrance to the room on a wall." If I put the bedroom switch 18" from the door because of framing members and then get failed on a final because an inspector does not deem 18" as being "near"!!!! At least they give you a dimension on floor receptacles. They have to be within 18" of the wall to counted as the required number of receptacles. Receptacles on kitchen countertops have to be within 24" from an end of the counter, not NEAR the end???
 
Rick 0920 said:
What does "near" mean in the NEC when worded as something needs to be located near to something else? Why is this left wide open for problems? Is near 30"?
24" 12"? My definition of near might not be yours? Art 210.70 (A) (1) in the 2020 NEC states as a revision no less; "The wall mounted control device shall be located NEAR an entrance to the room on a wall." If I put the bedroom switch 18" from the door because of framing members and then get failed on a final because an inspector does not deem 18" as being "near"!!!! At least they give you a dimension on floor receptacles. They have to be within 18" of the wall to counted as the required number of receptacles. Receptacles on kitchen countertops have to be within 24" from an end of the counter, not NEAR the end???
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I would say a room light switch is near if it can be reached within a single arms distance of the doorway, as opposed to having to enter the room. My definition of near is definitely situation dependent.
 
There is no NEC definition of near. It just goes to show how out of touch the CMP is for accepting a PI with the word near in it. I mean really near can be 100', 10', 10" or fill in the blank. I cringe when I see code changes like these which reek of ineptitude. CMP's should have term limits to get rid of some of these old incompetents.
 
jim dungar said:
I would say a room light switch is near if it can be reached within a single arms distance of the doorway, as opposed to having to enter the room. My definition of near is definitely situation dependent.
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That would be great if all inspectors agreed on this. Why put such ambiguous terms in the NEC?
 
infinity said:
There is no NEC definition of near. It just goes to show how out of touch the CMP is for accepting a PI with the word near in it. I mean really near can be 100', 10', 10" or fill in the blank. I cringe when I see code changes like these which reek of ineptitude. CMP's should have term limits to get rid of some of these old incompetents.
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The worst part of it is that is still in the 2023 NEC edition!
 
infinity said:
There is no NEC definition of near. It just goes to show how out of touch the CMP is for accepting a PI with the word near in it. I mean really near can be 100', 10', 10" or fill in the blank. I cringe when I see code changes like these which reek of ineptitude. CMP's should have term limits to get rid of some of these old incompetents.
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I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember a code cycle that addressed floor receptacles years ago that stated that they counted as required receptacles as long as they were located "close" to the wall.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember a code cycle that addressed floor receptacles years ago that stated that they counted as required receptacles as long as they were located "close" to the wall.
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Maybe, as far back as the 2005 NEC that distance has been 18".
 
infinity said:
There is no NEC definition of near. It just goes to show how out of touch the CMP is for accepting a PI with the word near in it. I mean really near can be 100', 10', 10" or fill in the blank. I cringe when I see code changes like these which reek of ineptitude. CMP's should have term limits to get rid of some of these old incompetents.
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I think they are so bored because there's not enough real safety issues to solve that they come up with this garbage.

I agree there needs to be some turnover on the committees, and I've said it before, but it's time for a five year code cycle.
 
ActionDave said:
I think they are so bored because there's not enough real safety issues to solve that they come up with this garbage.

I agree there needs to be some turnover on the committees, and I've said it before, but it's time for a five year code cycle.
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I've always felt that the people on these CMP's were pretty bright but not one of them had a problem with the ambiguity of the word near? Honestly users of the NEC deserve better.

Definitely 5 year code cycles with TIA's to correct issues over the 5 year cycle.
 
Is the real problem the CMP or the AHJ?
Shouldn't the local AHJ be able to answer this question before the rough-in is started?
 
jim dungar said:
Is the real problem the CMP or the AHJ?
Shouldn't the local AHJ be able to answer this question before the rough-in is started?
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We could but wouldn't that be a waste of time? Here in NJ we have a statewide license. Is an electrical contractor supposed to contact each of the 500+ jurisdictions to ask what near means? Wouldn't it make more sense to just say within 36" and call it a day? Do we need the word near to be open to interpretation? What is this code change trying to accomplish anyway, that the switch is next to the door?
 
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