NEC 110.26(B) and trash cans

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jaggedben said:
How is your toolbag not an obstacle? The code does not use the word 'obstacle'. It uses the word 'storage'. See dictionary definition.
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I don't need a dictionary I have Article 100. :)
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible).
Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth. (CMP-1)
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hillbilly1 said:
K-Mart used chain link fences to enclose the electrical rooms, problem was, you couldn’t get to the door to get into the electrical room because the merchandise received was stacked all the way across in front of it. ...
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See, if they designated the pathway to the electrical room to be for the trash cans that needed to be emptied once a day, then you could always get to the electrical room. ;)
 
Okay so arguably it's a violation if 240.24(A). Unless, perhaps, you can just reach over the trash can if you need to see if a breaker is tripped back on. In the OP's pic you cannot.
 
Circuit breakers are required to be readily accessible.

240.24 Location in or on Premises.
240.24(A) Accessibility.
Circuit breakers and switches containing fuses shall be readily accessible and installed so that the center of the grip of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform, unless one of the following applies:
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We've got a company here that puts big gaylords on pallets and fills them full of reject flammable product and stores them in front of electrical panels, in aisleways, anywhere they can sit them down. And I'm talking hundreds not just a few. Some aisleways are totally blocked and I mean so tight that a grade-school kid couldn't squeeze through.

I drew a triangle on a bunch of them and wrote "Triangle Shirtwaist" with my Sharpy. Nobody got it except one guy from the sanitation department. But then again he's about the most literate guy in the whole facility, and I'm including the front office management
 
jaggedben said:
Well, the AHJ can go consult a dictionary. Oxford has 'store' implying laying away for 'future' use and Merriam Webster says 'later' use. Seems to me the garbage cans would be always presently in use.
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One could say the same thing about any non-empty box.
 
I don't think plastic rolling trash cans rise to that level, (especially if they fit below the equipment).
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Got a pic says they dont but,,, why would we want to lobby for a designer to park trash in front of panels?
 
Under what situation would an AHJ be applying the NEC to a 'non-installation'?
Are public/government employed inspectors generally allowed into building for unsolicited inspections?

Most operational and safety codes like OSHA and NFPA 70E are more likely better sources to cite as violations once the installation is done and maintenance is being performed.
 
jim dungar said:
Under what situation would an AHJ be applying the NEC to a 'non-installation'?
Are public/government employed inspectors generally allowed into building for unsolicited inspections?
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1) Fire departments as mentioned in posts 6 and 7.

2) If someone is dumb enough to draw plans that show panels in an area also designated for 'storage', plan checker can ask to redraw. Relevant given the OP mentions an architect.
 
LarryFine said:
One could say the same thing about any non-empty box.
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Nah, not if the boxes are being used for 'storage'. The trash can isn't, that's the point. It's a means of transporting the trash, which won't be used later and therefore isn't being stored. It only sits there temporarily before being moved at a predictable interval. :)
 
Rarely have I entered an electrical room in a retail or commercial building and not had to remove items like janitorial carts, the maids mop,
and you name it.
Lets lobby for a new article and call it Trashgate or Garbagegate.
 
A big box hardware store got hit by a big lawsuit because of that, and settled out of court. The guy that got injured though, probably had a stroke, because what he claimed happened, made no sense. I went over to open everything for his lawyers, when I arrived, the lawyers and his “forensic” investigator hadn’t arrived yet. The electrical room was full of crap again, and I told the manager he was a dumb a**, they were getting sued for that very reason! Piled everything over into the managers office.
 
jaggedben said:
Nah, not if the boxes are being used for 'storage'. The trash can isn't, that's the point. It's a means of transporting the trash, which won't be used later and therefore isn't being stored. It only sits there temporarily before being moved at a predictable interval. :)
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In other words its stored in front of the electrical panels until it is picked up by the waste contractor - oops, I used the "S" word!
 
What if some of the "trash" cans have recyclable materials in them? "Recyclables" would mean that it would be used at some point in the future
 
jaggedben said:
That part has to do with exposed live parts, which is not as issue when the panel deadfronts are on. The cans will be gone when the covers are off. Go read that part again.
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This section really should say "exposable live parts", rather than "exposed live parts", so that it is clear that it is intended to apply to equipment, regardless of whether it has a deadfront or not. Same with common aisle condition 3. One could argue that it is condition 2, if it is unlikely to simultaneously expose equipment on both sides. But the intent is to prepare for the event that you do have both sides open at the same time.

The whole intent of this section is to reserve a clear space to work on the equipment, without having other people's material in your way, regardless of if it is trash or treasure. Splitting hairs on the definition of store, is undermining the entire purpose of this section.

At least it should START clear, when you have your inspection. You don't have any control over what the end-user ends up doing with it, after occupancy begins, and nature has a tendency to fill this space.
 
The whole intent of this section is to reserve a clear space to work on the equipment, without having other people's material in your way, regardless of if it is trash or treasure. Splitting hairs on the definition of store, is undermining the entire purpose of this section.

At least it should START clear, when you have your inspection. You don't have any control over what the end-user ends up doing with it, after occupancy begins, and nature has a tendency to fill this space.
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I agree with this intent. No need to give them permission to start out that way.
 
A lot of places paint the floor in the safe clearance area yellow and put signage up, some even install that yellow plastic chain around the perimeter. Then everyone including management ignores it
 
Personally, I think it is great if something easily and regularly moved occupied the space in front of a panel, because it prevents other things from blocking the panel.

These garbage bins are big, and there are several of them. Is there a place they can easily go to quickly, with 'in front of the panel' the most esthetic? Or is this a tight hallway where getting to 1 panel means moving all the bins?

Not really a code argument; IMHO code prohibits the cans being there. But the context adjusts how much I'd stress about the issue.

Consider a panel in door swing space. You can't put anything in that space without blocking the door, so the door acts to keep the working space clear. Great. Now when you want to work in the panel, can you reasonably lock the door closed, or swing it the other way? IMHO a panel in a door swing space could be a problem or a benefit depending on the context of the use of the door.

Same with these cans. Easily moved to get to the panel? Probably a benefit. Hard to move? Push back on the violation.

Jon
 
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