NEC 220.53 Appliance Load

[Mike Lima]

Should I include Pool Pump and Pool Heater in the fastened in place appliance Load NEC 220.53 section of my standard dwelling
calculation? hence they will be subjected to the demand factor of 75%? I am wondering if I should put it under my "Other Loads section"
because NEC 220.53 is for fasten in place Appliance load in dwelling units where as the swimming pool is on the outside, not in.

Thank you guys.

 

[charlie b]

My answer is no, but not because they are outside, rather than in, the dwelling unit. I would not call them "appliances." I concede that the wording of the article 100 definition of "appliance" does not clearly and explicitly exclude things of this nature. So there is room for argument here. This is just the way I see it.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

If there is only one pool pump and pool heater,application of demand factor for such single items does not seem to be logical.......

 

[Mike Lima]

If there is only one pool pump and pool heater,application of demand factor for such single items does not seem to be logical.......

There is a total of 5 fastened in place Appliances; adding the pool pump and pool heater would make this total 7. Therefore, the
application of the 70% demand factor.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

There is a total of 5 fastened in place Appliances; adding the pool pump and pool heater would make this total 7. Therefore, the
application of the 70% demand factor.

The point is not clear to me.If the fastened in appliances are of the same kind,say there are 7 pool pumps,then application of demand factor to reduce the overall demand is meaningful.But if each of the fastened in appliances is of different kind,applying an overall demand factor does not make sense to me.Or do I miss something?

 

[kwired]

Most pool pumps are continuous loads that run 24/7 arent they? The demand factors are allowed for certain items because of the likelyhood they will not all be in full demand simultaneously. If a load runs 24/7 at the same rate, how can you apply a demand factor to it? It will never draw less demand unless it is turned off because of non usage.

 

[kwired]

The point is not clear to me.If the fastened in appliances are of the same kind,say there are 7 pool pumps,then application of demand factor to reduce the overall demand is meaningful.But if each of the fastened in appliances is of different kind,applying an overall demand factor does not make sense to me.Or do I miss something?

If you have 7 pool pumps and they run 24/7 you can not apply a demand factor as demand is 100%. Right?

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

If you have 7 pool pumps and they run 24/7 you can not apply a demand factor as demand is 100%. Right?

Yes.Please go ahead.

 

[Mike Lima]

Thanks much

 

[cadpoint]

Should I include Pool Pump and Pool Heater in the fastened in place appliance Load NEC 220.53 section of my standard dwelling calculation?

No, look at Figure 90.3.

Swimming pools has its own Article and 220.53 is not mentioned or listed as an exception. See 680.3, Other parts of the said Article tells a lot that can be done but not in respects your question, if you read the opening part of 680, equipment is mentioned three times the appliance in this case is the pool, JMO

hence they will be subjected to the demand factor of 75%? I am wondering if I should put it under my "Other Loads section” because NEC 220.53 is for fasten in place Appliance load in dwelling units where as the swimming pool is on the outside, not in.

If you want to look at anything, think and keep 220.14 (all) in mind but really 220.14(A). IE account for the circuits requirement.

 

[suemarkp]

Most pool pumps do not run 24/7. They need to run enough to run all the water through the filter every day (at least that's the general rule). My 50 GPM pump will run all 16000 gallons through the filter in a bit over 5 hours. I run the pump for 4 hrs/day during light use, and 6 hrs/day for heavy use (or longer if I want the heater to run since it needs circulating water). If you get an algae bloom, then to fix it you'd run the pump 24/7 for a few days after you kill all the algae. Then there's the spa pump which runs only when people want bubbly water.

I think the questions are good -- should we apply the 75% factor to any fastened in place equipment, or only occasional use equipment? The pump is a motor, so you don't apply a 125% factor to it unless it is your largest motor (at least when doing a Service calculation).

Code only says fastened in place appliances and makes no distinction in regards to typical usage. Is the pump even an appliance? Is an attic fan, bathroom fan, or garage door opener an appliance?

In the end, I think you're safe to apply the 75% factor because you'll most likely find you have a much lower calculated load if you use the Optional calculation instead, even when applying the 75% factor to as much as you can in the Standard calculation. The Optional calculation applies a 40% factor to everything except HVAC once you're above 10 KVA.

To T.M.Haja Sahib, I think the reason for this 75% factor is the fact that most people don't use all their appliances at the same time. Could they, sure. But you'd be having an even larger service installed if this factor is not applied. Some items are specifically excluded from this rule, such as space heating/cooling and electric ranges (they have a different demand table). It is kind of crazy what size conductors the power company supplies to a dwelling compared to what the NEC makes us use per calculated load. But I don't see power company wires burning up.

 

[charlie b]

Is the pump even an appliance? Is an attic fan, bathroom fan, or garage door opener an appliance?

No, no, no, and no, in that order. JMHO.

 

[jumper]

No, no, no, and no, in that order. JMHO.

I disagree, if not appliances, then what are they?

 

[charlie b]

I disagree, if not appliances, then what are they?

Utilization equipment that happen to include motors. Why would that put them into the same category as dishwashers, disposals, washers, dryers, ranges, toasters, and blenders? You can buy any of these in an appliance store. The first two on this list are fixed-in-place appliances to which 220.53 would apply. A washer is not fixed-in-place, so 220.53 does not apply. The next two are excluded by 220.53. The last two are small appliances that, again, are not fixed-in-place.

There is nothing that says that anything with a wire attached is an appliance. Indeed, the very title of 220.14(A) makes it clear that there are some things that are appliances and other things that are not.

 

[kwired]

Utilization equipment that happen to include motors. Why would that put them into the same category as dishwashers, disposals, washers, dryers, ranges, toasters, and blenders? You can buy any of these in an appliance store. The first two on this list are fixed-in-place appliances to which 220.53 would apply. A washer is not fixed-in-place, so 220.53 does not apply. The next two are excluded by 220.53. The last two are small appliances that, again, are not fixed-in-place.

There is nothing that says that anything with a wire attached is an appliance. Indeed, the very title of 220.14(A) makes it clear that there are some things that are appliances and other things that are not.

Is the pump even an appliance? Is an attic fan, bathroom fan, or garage door opener an appliance?

Appliance. Utilization equipment, generally other than industrial, that is normally built in standardized sizes or types and is installed or connected as a unit to perform one or more functions such as clothes washing, air conditioning, food mixing, deep frying, and so forth.

By definition why can't those items be an appliance? They all usually are built in standard sizes, or types, and are installed or connnected as a unit to perform one or more functions ...

 

[Mike Lima]

Standard dwelling load calculation comprise of 4 sections:
? General Lighting Load
? Fastened in place appliance Load
? Largest of Heating & Air-Conditioning Load
? Other Loads

Looking at Nec 90.3, 220.3, 220.14 specifically 220.14 (A), and Chapter 6 Special Equipment -680, Swimming pools,
fountains, hydromassage bathtub and similar installations related equipment should be characterized under ?Other Loads? and not
?Fastened in place appliance load?.

?Other Loads? include:
? Electric Clothes Dryer
? Household ranges & cooking appliances
? Outside (Landscape) Load (NEC 225.8)
? Special equipment (swimming pools, fountains, hydromassage bathtub and similar related equipment).
? 25% of Largest Motor (see 430.24 & 440.7)

Hence, the pool pump and pool heater cannot be subjected to the rules for fastened in place appliance nec 220.53; demand factor of
75%. They are "special equipment".

 

[charlie b]

By definition why can't those items be an appliance? They all usually are built in standard sizes, or types, and are installed or connected as a unit to perform one or more functions ...

Just because the definition of a word does not explicitly exclude an item, that doesn?t mean that that item meets the definition. I can give you a long list of things that are built in standard sizes, that are installed or connected as a unit, and that perform one or more functions. Here are a few: Electric piano, motorized nut driver, electric charcoal lighter (i.e., the heating element that you put under the charcoal), the pencil sharpener I have on my desk, the table lamp that sits right next to it, the photo frame on the other side of the desk, the overhead light in the kitchen, the light/fan combination that I used to have in my gazebo, a TV, a stereo system, a clock radio, and the computer monitor I am looking at while I type this comment. None of these things are ?appliances,? in the context of the NEC rules.

 

[kwired]

Just because the definition of a word does not explicitly exclude an item, that doesn?t mean that that item meets the definition. I can give you a long list of things that are built in standard sizes, that are installed or connected as a unit, and that perform one or more functions. Here are a few: Electric piano, motorized nut driver, electric charcoal lighter (i.e., the heating element that you put under the charcoal), the pencil sharpener I have on my desk, the table lamp that sits right next to it, the photo frame on the other side of the desk, the overhead light in the kitchen, the light/fan combination that I used to have in my gazebo, a TV, a stereo system, a clock radio, and the computer monitor I am looking at while I type this comment. None of these things are ?appliances,? in the context of the NEC rules.

Please tell us what they are according to NEC.

Going back a few posts you said

Why would that put them into the same category as dishwashers, disposals, washers, dryers, ranges, toasters, and blenders? You can buy any of these in an appliance store.

NEC does not mention that they need to be bought from an appliance store. You can often buy much more than what you mentioned in an appliance store also.

I would call most of them appliances that are not fastened in place - except maybe the gazebo light/fan. The overhead light in the kitchen should be a luminaire according to NEC. The table lamp may be considered a luminaire but it would be a portable luminaire and not a fastened in place luminaire.

 

[suemarkp]

Don't see much difference between a garbage disposal and a garage door opener.

I like Mike Lima's answer for the pool pump.

 

[charlie b]

Electric piano, motorized nut driver, electric charcoal lighter, pencil sharpener, table lamp, photo frame, overhead light, light/fan combination, TV, stereo system, clock radio, and computer monitor.

Please tell us what they are according to NEC. . . . I would call most of them appliances that are not fastened in place - except maybe the gazebo light/fan.

According to the NEC, these are all just items of utilization equipment. Come on, pencil sharpener an ?appliance?? I really think not! :happyno:

The NEC has two reasons to have an interest in ?appliances.? One has to do with some of the highest loads that show up in dwelling units, not all of which are commonly run at the same time. That is why the 75% demand factor is available. The other has to do with the myriad of things that get plugged into receptacle outlets in the kitchen. That is why there are rules about spacing and breaker sizes for small appliance branch circuits. If it doesn?t fit into one of those two areas of interest, all the NEC cares about is that we include it in our accounting for loads.