NEC requirements

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ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
I had a rough in inspection done and the inspector had a few things he said needed to be done that I wasn't aware of. This is a single family dwelling.

1. He wanted all boxes with grounds made up in them. I guess I can see where that's thorough but my other inspectors don't require this for a rough in. It's no big deal. I just never had an inspector tell me I had to have them made up for the rough in. Anyone else run into this?

2. The dining room has one wall with a bedroom on the backside of it. There's one dining room receptacle and I hit that as I was passing with the bedroom circuit. I was told that I couldn't do that and it has to be on one of the kitchen small app circuits. I've have put dining room receptacles on the small app circuit before but have never been told it HAD to be on one of those circuits or that it couldn't be on a bedroom circuit or any other general purpose circuit. I don't know what the code number is offhand that talks about this but does it state that it HAS to be on one of the kitchen circuits or that it CAN be on one of them?

3. The last one is about number of receptacles on a 20 amp residential branch circuit. I have two bedrooms on a 20 amp BC and I think there are around 14 receptacles on it. No lighting. Just receptacles. I was told that I could only have 8 on a circuit. Is there anything in the code that determines the maximum number of receptacles on a branch circuit in a dwelling? I haven't found anything specifically related to that. Now, I COULD remove some of the receptacles because they are probably only 6 to 8 feet apart and then I would be down to 8 or less but it would be much less convenient. Realistically, you could put a receptacle on ever stud along the walls in an area and you would have the same load as you would with one on each wall. It doesn't matter how many receptacles you have because they aren't going to use them all. I was thinking you could put as many as you wanted on a circuit because they're still going to plug in the same things....... Thoughts on this? Code references?

Thank you.
 
I had a rough in inspection done and the inspector had a few things he said needed to be done that I wasn't aware of. This is a single family dwelling.

1. He wanted all boxes with grounds made up in them. I guess I can see where that's thorough but my other inspectors don't require this for a rough in. It's no big deal. I just never had an inspector tell me I had to have them made up for the rough in. Anyone else run into this?

2. The dining room has one wall with a bedroom on the backside of it. There's one dining room receptacle and I hit that as I was passing with the bedroom circuit. I was told that I couldn't do that and it has to be on one of the kitchen small app circuits. I've have put dining room receptacles on the small app circuit before but have never been told it HAD to be on one of those circuits or that it couldn't be on a bedroom circuit or any other general purpose circuit. I don't know what the code number is offhand that talks about this but does it state that it HAS to be on one of the kitchen circuits or that it CAN be on one of them?

3. The last one is about number of receptacles on a 20 amp residential branch circuit. I have two bedrooms on a 20 amp BC and I think there are around 14 receptacles on it. No lighting. Just receptacles. I was told that I could only have 8 on a circuit. Is there anything in the code that determines the maximum number of receptacles on a branch circuit in a dwelling? I haven't found anything specifically related to that. Now, I COULD remove some of the receptacles because they are probably only 6 to 8 feet apart and then I would be down to 8 or less but it would be much less convenient. Realistically, you could put a receptacle on ever stud along the walls in an area and you would have the same load as you would with one on each wall. It doesn't matter how many receptacles you have because they aren't going to use them all. I was thinking you could put as many as you wanted on a circuit because they're still going to plug in the same things....... Thoughts on this? Code references?

Thank you.

1. Could be a local requirement. Washington State requires this - EGC's be made up for rough inspection.

2.The inspector is correct 210.52(B) 1 and 2

3. Inspector is incorrect.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I had a rough in inspection done and the inspector had a few things he said needed to be done that I wasn't aware of. This is a single family dwelling.

1. He wanted all boxes with grounds made up in them. I guess I can see where that's thorough but my other inspectors don't require this for a rough in. It's no big deal. I just never had an inspector tell me I had to have them made up for the rough in. Anyone else run into this?

2. The dining room has one wall with a bedroom on the backside of it. There's one dining room receptacle and I hit that as I was passing with the bedroom circuit. I was told that I couldn't do that and it has to be on one of the kitchen small app circuits. I've have put dining room receptacles on the small app circuit before but have never been told it HAD to be on one of those circuits or that it couldn't be on a bedroom circuit or any other general purpose circuit. I don't know what the code number is offhand that talks about this but does it state that it HAS to be on one of the kitchen circuits or that it CAN be on one of them?

3. The last one is about number of receptacles on a 20 amp residential branch circuit. I have two bedrooms on a 20 amp BC and I think there are around 14 receptacles on it. No lighting. Just receptacles. I was told that I could only have 8 on a circuit. Is there anything in the code that determines the maximum number of receptacles on a branch circuit in a dwelling? I haven't found anything specifically related to that. Now, I COULD remove some of the receptacles because they are probably only 6 to 8 feet apart and then I would be down to 8 or less but it would be much less convenient. Realistically, you could put a receptacle on ever stud along the walls in an area and you would have the same load as you would with one on each wall. It doesn't matter how many receptacles you have because they aren't going to use them all. I was thinking you could put as many as you wanted on a circuit because they're still going to plug in the same things....... Thoughts on this? Code references?

Thank you.

1) Yes, required for rough here.

2) Dining room receptacles have to be on a 20 amp SABC, no exceptions.

3) There is no maximum number of receptacles on a residential branch circuit specified in the NEC.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
1. The State of Minnesota electrical Authority Having Jurisdiction instructs that, upon rough in, all the splices in boxes be made up. It's been this way for many years.

2. The dining room receptacle outlets have been required to be on a 20 Amp 120 Volt branch circuit, that may be a small appliance branch circuit, essentially forever. The fact that you haven't been called out on it just means that this is the first time an inspector has caught it.

3. Here, the inspector is wrong. As long as the openings are all part of the General Lighting of the dwelling, then the one real limit, if it is a 15 Amp branch circuit, is the 3 Watts per square foot calculation. . . 1800 Watts divided by 3 Watts per square foot equals 660 square foot of floor space. That is, if the two bed room are bigger than 660 square feet and the entire area is feed by one 15 Amp branch circuit then you've not met the Code.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
1) Yes, required for rough here.

2) Dining room receptacles have to be on a 20 amp SABC, no exceptions.

3) There is no maximum number of receptacles on a residential branch circuit specified in the NEC.

Agree with the others. TN State Code has a maximum outlets on AF circuits.. inspector may be enforcing similar local ordinances.
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
2) Dining room receptacles have to be on a 20 amp SABC, no exceptions..

Do they have to be on the kitchen circuits or can they just be on a 20 amp circuit dedicated to the dining room?
I'm not near my code book....
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Do they have to be on the kitchen circuits or can they just be on a 20 amp circuit dedicated to the dining room?
I'm not near my code book....

Either or, the requirement is to have 2 20-amp circuits and they may serve the dining room as well. However, in my experience, it's common place to run a third 20-amp circuit to the dining room. Why? I don't know.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
1) Yes, required for rough here.

2) Dining room receptacles have to be on a 20 amp SABC, no exceptions.

3) There is no maximum number of receptacles on a residential branch circuit specified in the NEC.

I did find the code referring to the dining room receptacles. 210.52(b) I looked at my 2008 book and at that time they weren't required to be on the SABC. I think they COULD be but weren't required. That was before the SABC's were required to have arc fault protection but at that time the dining rooms did have to unless they were included on a SABC. Thanks for the help.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I did find the code referring to the dining room receptacles. 210.52(b) I looked at my 2008 book and at that time they weren't required to be on the SABC. I think they COULD be but weren't required. That was before the SABC's were required to have arc fault protection but at that time the dining rooms did have to unless they were included on a SABC. Thanks for the help.

Even if you run a 20 amp circuit to a bedroom, it still doesn't count as an SABC if you tap an additional receptacle in the dining room off of it. Will it ever be a problem though? I highly doubt it. Personally I think the 20 amp rule for dining rooms is foolish and outdated, but that's just me.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
You got it ! Here, we await Iwire's post.
So let it be written. So let it be done
:D

I didn't know you listened to Metallica!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvy_E9X1N2g

Agree with the others as well. Grounds are made up at rough-in here.

I suppose the inspector is counting every receptacle as 150VA and thus a duplex as 300VA to erroneously arrive at 8 receptacles (2400VA) allowable on a 20A (2400VA) circuit.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
1. The State of Minnesota electrical Authority Having Jurisdiction instructs that, upon rough in, all the splices in boxes be made up. It's been this way for many years.

2. The dining room receptacle outlets have been required to be on a 20 Amp 120 Volt branch circuit, that may be a small appliance branch circuit, essentially forever. The fact that you haven't been called out on it just means that this is the first time an inspector has caught it.

3. Here, the inspector is wrong. As long as the openings are all part of the General Lighting of the dwelling, then the one real limit, if it is a 15 Amp branch circuit, is the 3 Watts per square foot calculation. . . 1800 Watts divided by 3 Watts per square foot equals 660 square foot of floor space. That is, if the two bed room are bigger than 660 square feet and the entire area is feed by one 15 Amp branch circuit then you've not met the Code.

You wouldn't happen to have a code reference for the number of receptacles on a circuit would you?
Thanks
 

dkidd

Senior Member
Location
here
Occupation
PE
3. Here, the inspector is wrong. As long as the openings are all part of the General Lighting of the dwelling, then the one real limit, if it is a 15 Amp branch circuit, is the 3 Watts per square foot calculation. . . 1800 Watts divided by 3 Watts per square foot equals 660 square foot of floor space. That is, if the two bed room are bigger than 660 square feet and the entire area is feed by one 15 Amp branch circuit then you've not met the Code.

I have seen that position before, but NEC does not require that.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Do they have to be on the kitchen circuits or can they just be on a 20 amp circuit dedicated to the dining room?
I'm not near my code book....

They can be on a dedicated circuit, but it is still an additional SABC, and SABC's can not feed any other outlets not specified in 210.52(B). Keep in mind that in 220.52 you need to figure 1500 VA for every SABC installed.

If you run two SABC's to all the spaces mentioned in 210.52(B) that is 3000 VA in your load calculations.

If you run same number of receptacles as before but decide to run 6 circuits - now you have 9000 VA in your load calculations for the same receptacle outlets.
 
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