need help with Landscape lighting with radioRA switch

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bstan1976

bstan1976

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kearny NJ
System- Landscape lighting with a 14 amp load. I want to control the lights with a Lutron radioRa switch that is rated for 8 amps. I placed a 120v 30 amp relay to handle the load. The lights will stay lit for about an hour and then they trip a 20 amp breaker. the schematic is as follows: 20 amp breaker to switch to relay to gfci to transformer. I have exhausted everything i can think of to get these lights to work. Any suggestions?
 
I measured the amperage (14.11 amps). I believe the breakers to be thermally protected and it is the somehow getting heated up not overloaded. The transformers, when not connected to the radioRa switch, work fine. It just seems when everything is put together there is a problem.
 
So if the radio ra is taken out of the system the lights don't trip the breaker. or is the relay taken out also. I would leave the relay in and see if it trips without the radio ra. Sounds like a possible problem in the relay or the radio ra-- not sure what but try and narrow it down.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
So if the radio ra is taken out of the system the lights don't trip the breaker. or is the relay taken out also. I would leave the relay in and see if it trips without the radio ra. Sounds like a possible problem in the relay or the radio ra-- not sure what but try and narrow it down.
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The radio ra is brand new. I have swapped it out , as well as the relay. I have seen much larger systems work off smart dimmers so I am stumped. I did a heat test on the relay and switch today and after five minutes of load bearing they spiked thirty degrees. What would do that if the amperage is well within those devices ratings?
 
as far as the radio switch getting hot, perhaps it doesnt like the inductive load from the relay coil? Try putting a couple hundred watts of incandescent lamps on the radio switch as a ghost load to mitigate the inductive load from the relay coil and see how your switch temp is.

as far as the breaker...what kind of breaker is it?
 
wireguru said:
as far as the radio switch getting hot, perhaps it doesnt like the inductive load from the relay coil? Try putting a couple hundred watts of incandescent lamps on the radio switch as a ghost load to mitigate the inductive load from the relay coil and see how your switch temp is.

as far as the breaker...what kind of breaker is it?
Click to expand...

20amp siemens
 
bstan1976 said:
20amp siemens
Click to expand...

I assume you have changed that breaker out?? Also I have not understood your answer to my question. When you said you swapped the relay and Ra switch out does that mean you replaced it with another Ra switch and relay? That is not what I proposed. I meant to leave the relay and change the ra switch to a standard switch... If you did that what happens. If that still has problems then take the relay out of the equation and see what happens.
 
bstan1976 said:
I measured the amperage (14.11 amps). I believe the breakers to be thermally protected and it is the somehow getting heated up not overloaded. The transformers, when not connected to the radioRa switch, work fine. It just seems when everything is put together there is a problem.
Click to expand...



A 20 amp breaker with 14.11 amps will not 'heat up and trip'.

That leaves some possibilities.

  1. The breaker is defective
  2. Your amp clamp is defective.
  3. Your not using the clamp correctly
  4. Your not measuring when the breaker trips

I strongly suggest swapping in a new breaker and running the circuit without the relay stuff connected for at least a few hours and see what happens.

I agree with Dennis in that it sounds a lot like a bad wire underground, they will often run for a while before tripping out the circuit.
 
iwire said:
A 20 amp breaker with 14.11 amps will not 'heat up and trip'.

That leaves some possibilities.

  1. The breaker is defective
  2. Your amp clamp is defective.
  3. Your not using the clamp correctly
  4. Your not measuring when the breaker trips

I strongly suggest swapping in a new breaker and running the circuit without the relay stuff connected for at least a few hours and see what happens.

I agree with Dennis in that it sounds a lot like a bad wire underground, they will often run for a while before tripping out the circuit.
Click to expand...
Perhaps i did not explain myself well enough. It is not the breaker that is heating up it is the relay and the switch. my ampprobe is working fine ( My partner is getting the same readings). I started out without the relay and the switch was heating up and burning out. Then i added the relay and that is now going from 61 degrees to 96 in a matter of minutes and then tripping the breaker. I have tried swapping the breaker 3 times. I have changed the gfci to a regular receptacle. I have had the transformers plugged in without the relay and switch for a few days and they work fine. The customer does not accept that he cannot have his landscape lights on a radiora switch and i cannot figure out what else i can do. I will start over if necessary.
 
bstan1976 said:
Perhaps i did not explain myself well enough. It is not the breaker that is heating up it is the relay and the switch. my ampprobe is working fine ( My partner is getting the same readings). I started out without the relay and the switch was heating up and burning out. Then i added the relay and that is now going from 61 degrees to 96 in a matter of minutes and then tripping the breaker. I have tried swapping the breaker 3 times. I have changed the gfci to a regular receptacle. I have had the transformers plugged in without the relay and switch for a few days and they work fine. The customer does not accept that he cannot have his landscape lights on a radiora switch and i cannot figure out what else i can do. I will start over if necessary.
Click to expand...

Okay, the breaker and the wire underground don't appear to be the issue. That leaves the switch and the relay. Did you try leaving the relay in and removing the radio ra switch??? What happens?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Okay, the breaker and the wire underground don't appear to be the issue. That leaves the switch and the relay. Did you try leaving the relay in and removing the radio ra switch??? What happens?
Click to expand...
I never tried that, the reason being the whole purpose is to make this work with the switches. I did try several new switches. I only put the relay in because the switches are rated for 8 amps and there is a 14.11 amp load from the lights. The relay is pointless if not to service the switch. Without the relay the switch burns up in a few minutes (they are $150 a piece). With the relay it is the contactor that gets hot not the switch.
 
bstan1976 said:
I never tried that, the reason being the whole purpose is to make this work with the switches. I did try several new switches. I only put the relay in because the switches are rated for 8 amps and there is a 14.11 amp load from the lights. The relay is pointless if not to service the switch. Without the relay the switch burns up in a few minutes (they are $150 a piece). With the relay it is the contactor that gets hot not the switch.
Click to expand...
Not familiar with RadioRA, but isn't it a dimmer.

How do you have a dimmer controlling a relay?:confused:

How are the lights going to be dimmed and brightened?:confused:
 
Smart $ said:
Not familiar with RadioRA, but isn't it a dimmer.

How do you have a dimmer controlling a relay?:confused:

How are the lights going to be dimmed and brightened?:confused:
Click to expand...

Good point. The radio ra switch must be the non dimming which is available. Again I would check with Lutron there may be a specific one for relays but I don't believe you will be able to dim the set. They do make a power booster that will increase the capacity of the Ra switch to 2000 watts. No relay is needed.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Good point. The radio ra switch must be the non dimming which is available. Again I would check with Lutron there may be a specific one for relays but I don't believe you will be able to dim the set. They do make a power booster that will increase the capacity of the Ra switch to 2000 watts. No relay is needed.
Click to expand...
After a little digging on the Lutron site, I found the non-dimming Accessory Switch. However, upon looking at the specifications, they seem to be rated minimum 5 watts load. Perhaps the relay coil draws less than that.

http://www.lutron.com/cms400/assets/0/609/943/955/1015/6DE4C686-08BA-4408-A562-0CD6BE26BA7B.pdf
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Good point. The radio ra switch must be the non dimming which is available. Again I would check with Lutron there may be a specific one for relays but I don't believe you will be able to dim the set. They do make a power booster that will increase the capacity of the Ra switch to 2000 watts. No relay is needed.
Click to expand...
It is the non dimming switch. Never heard of the power booster. Interesting that Lutron tech support never mentioned it. Just for my own knowledge, what is making the switch and the relay heat up so much? The load on the switch is about 5 amps and it is rated for 8, and the load on the relay is about 8.5 amps and it is rated fo 30. What am i missing? Is there a defect somewhere or is my installation wrong?
 
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