jbellino
Member
- Location
- Central Florida
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Hello gents,
I am an IBEW journeyman/foreman, and I attend a church in south Orlando, FL that is currently leasing a crappy commercial space with even crappier Federal Pacific panels. Recently, I was told that the (2) AC rooftop units were not working, and that the display on both thermostats corresponding to them inside were dead. An HVAC guy came by to look at the units, and he said the problem was that the main breaker on the panel they were fed from would not properly reset. When I was asked to go look at it to see if there was at least a temporary solution for the weekend services (it was last Friday), this is what I saw after taking the panel cover off (check out C phase):
I locked out the 125A feeder breaker from the main panel outside which feeds the 125A main breaker in *this* panel, and decided that I'd better opt out of touching it as far as repairs were concerned; I am licensed and know how to do the work, but I don't have my own bonded an insured business, so I figured the landlord should be dealing with this. This was strongly encouraged by a couple of my elders in the trade as well. The landord is clearly cheap and sleazy, given the state that he left the building in when we moved in, and the fact that he avoids repairing or paying for anything like the plague. So I'd certainly rather not work with someone like that unless I have the proper protection in place.
Later on, I get a call from the landlord's maintenance guy, asking me about the situation, and why the main panel feeder breaker was locked out. I explained everything to him, and told him it was a miracle that the building didn't burn down. As soon as he approached the inside panel he could smell it.
So with that, I heard over the weekend that the landlord would be having someone take care of the panel swap this week. I found out today (Monday) that this same maintenance guy I spoke to over the phone previously is in fact the one who is going to be doing the panel swap. He had some understanding of electrical, but definitely didn't seem to have enough knowledge to be a competent electrician. He asked me if the replacement panel would also need a 125A main disconnect breaker like the existing one. I told him no, but that the panel itself needed to be rated for at least 125A. I told him that the subfeeds needed to also be replaced, and he told me that he planned to leave subfeed the wires and just swap the panel out. I told him that the subfeed wires absolutely needed to be replaced because due to the heat (especially on C phase), they were now compromised. He said that was going to be a problem because the landlord was definitely not going to want to pay for that. I told him, "well, he needs to, because that's a hazard and those feeds can't be trusted anymore." He asked me how to size replacement feeds, so I told him what he would need for everything in copper THHN. That's the last I spoke to him, and have yet to receive any updates.
I don't know what the status is at the moment, but I'm prepared to potentially encounter a few different things:
A. The landlord refused to replace the subfeeds altogether
B. The maintenance guy replaces the subfeeds & panel, but does a subpar job and there are code violations within the install
C. I keep getting asked about how to do a proper install even though I'm not being paid for this
Basically, we're in a situation where we may end up having to take legal action. Fortunately I can identify code violations, and we have two lawyers who are members of this parish. I'm wondering if any of you have dealt with something like this before? Any advice on handling a situation like this? This is the first time I've dealt with this kind of thing, and I want to make sure we play our cards right. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
-Jesse
I am an IBEW journeyman/foreman, and I attend a church in south Orlando, FL that is currently leasing a crappy commercial space with even crappier Federal Pacific panels. Recently, I was told that the (2) AC rooftop units were not working, and that the display on both thermostats corresponding to them inside were dead. An HVAC guy came by to look at the units, and he said the problem was that the main breaker on the panel they were fed from would not properly reset. When I was asked to go look at it to see if there was at least a temporary solution for the weekend services (it was last Friday), this is what I saw after taking the panel cover off (check out C phase):
I locked out the 125A feeder breaker from the main panel outside which feeds the 125A main breaker in *this* panel, and decided that I'd better opt out of touching it as far as repairs were concerned; I am licensed and know how to do the work, but I don't have my own bonded an insured business, so I figured the landlord should be dealing with this. This was strongly encouraged by a couple of my elders in the trade as well. The landord is clearly cheap and sleazy, given the state that he left the building in when we moved in, and the fact that he avoids repairing or paying for anything like the plague. So I'd certainly rather not work with someone like that unless I have the proper protection in place.
Later on, I get a call from the landlord's maintenance guy, asking me about the situation, and why the main panel feeder breaker was locked out. I explained everything to him, and told him it was a miracle that the building didn't burn down. As soon as he approached the inside panel he could smell it.
So with that, I heard over the weekend that the landlord would be having someone take care of the panel swap this week. I found out today (Monday) that this same maintenance guy I spoke to over the phone previously is in fact the one who is going to be doing the panel swap. He had some understanding of electrical, but definitely didn't seem to have enough knowledge to be a competent electrician. He asked me if the replacement panel would also need a 125A main disconnect breaker like the existing one. I told him no, but that the panel itself needed to be rated for at least 125A. I told him that the subfeeds needed to also be replaced, and he told me that he planned to leave subfeed the wires and just swap the panel out. I told him that the subfeed wires absolutely needed to be replaced because due to the heat (especially on C phase), they were now compromised. He said that was going to be a problem because the landlord was definitely not going to want to pay for that. I told him, "well, he needs to, because that's a hazard and those feeds can't be trusted anymore." He asked me how to size replacement feeds, so I told him what he would need for everything in copper THHN. That's the last I spoke to him, and have yet to receive any updates.
I don't know what the status is at the moment, but I'm prepared to potentially encounter a few different things:
A. The landlord refused to replace the subfeeds altogether
B. The maintenance guy replaces the subfeeds & panel, but does a subpar job and there are code violations within the install
C. I keep getting asked about how to do a proper install even though I'm not being paid for this
Basically, we're in a situation where we may end up having to take legal action. Fortunately I can identify code violations, and we have two lawyers who are members of this parish. I'm wondering if any of you have dealt with something like this before? Any advice on handling a situation like this? This is the first time I've dealt with this kind of thing, and I want to make sure we play our cards right. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
-Jesse
