Neutral on the ground bar?

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Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Jhr, that was funny.

Scott, you've never seen a defective breaker? I've seen one (and only one) on a brand new service. It was less than a year old, but when the sun was high and shining on it, while it was loaded to around 40% capacity (because we turned everything in the house on), it would trip in the middle of the day.

Never say never.

That said, Rexmaster, you shouldn't be working on your friend's house. You're allowed to work on your own house, most likely, but you're probably breaking the law in your actions.

This "problem" you brought here is one of the primary life-safety systems in that house. If you had removed the item that you didn't understand, you would have set up the means to kill someone. That is not an exaggeration at all.

Please quit while you're ahead.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by paul:
Can't people on here be a little more civil to the DIY'ers? It's called tact and it goes a long way. Get off the high horse.
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I think part of his point is that this DIYer clearly does not have even a basic understanding of electrical systems, but thinks he does. You are not helping him by being rude to him. A polite explanation and admonishment to seek help from an appropriate source might actually cause him to take that route. The rude and obnoxious approach will cause him to think poorly of you and he is likely to just keep going on his merry way.

By being rude to him, you might actually be the cause of someone getting hurt down the road when he decides to just do it himself and does it wrong because you guys were so rude to him. Do you want that on your consciences?
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

This is not a "DIY," a "Do It Yourself" person. That term is a past or present tense term, and this particular job is already done. So this is a DIM person.

That would be "Did It Myself." :D :D

Rexmaster: Since you are new to the Forum, you are not likely to be aware that we often poke fun at ourselves. So please do not take offense.

We can't help a DIY with "how-to-do-it" information. But your question was one of "is it right and is it safe." That type of question we can address. I hope you have your answer.

But I also hope that you will think twice about doing this type of work again, at your own home or at anyone else's. There are too many ways to get it wrong, and to not be able to notice that you got it wrong. To be as specific and clear as I can, the fact that the circuit worked, that the lights came back on, that the new breaker didn't trip, and that you don't smell any smoke does not mean that you did the job right. There might be a problem waiting for its chance to manifest itself. You might have moved away years before the problem surfaces. You will never know if something you might have done wrong (close to right, but still wrong) may someday cause a fire or may cause something worse.

When you have a professional do this type of job, you can be confident that there is no problem lurking in the shadows, waiting for its chance to step into the light.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by charlie b:

When you have a professional do this type of job, you can be confident that there is no problem lurking in the shadows, waiting for its chance to step into the light.
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Sorry Charlie, I just have to disagree with this statement. If this were true all us non professionals could sit back, the world would turn just fine and the professional's would just keep us alive. Unfortunately the world is full of professional sleez balls and they will take advantage of a lot of situations. True the professional's should be trained and know how to find those lurking problems but as has been pointed out in several other thread's. When do you go beyond your scope of work to do the extra without the liability of the entire house or someone else's life falling on your shoulders.

Well this thread is no place for this discussion, just according to the rules of this forum a DIY has no business on here. It is good to see the response to him though that it wasn't totally rude and the correct information was given. I myself am glad that he thought to ask without doing something stupid.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by 69boss302: Sorry Charlie, I just have to disagree with this statement. If this were true all us non professionals could sit back, the world would turn just fine and the professional's would just keep us alive.
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I don't understand why you are describing yourself as being outside the boundaries of the term "professional." In the context of this Forum, I include in the term "professional" anyone who earns a living from any aspect of the electrical industry.

What I had intended to convey is that a person who does this type of an installation for a living is less likely to make a critical error than a person who, in the OP's words, has "general knowledge" of residential wiring.
Originally posted by 69boss302:. . . according to the rules of this forum a DIY has no business on here.
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Not quite true. We can describe the dangers of an issue that a non-professional brings to our attention. We can help a homeowner understand the nature of a problem that an electrician has given them a price to repair. We can give "directional" answers, such as citing the applicable code section. The only thing we cannot do is to help a person who is not an electrician perform electrical installation work in their own home or in the home of a friend or family member. It's the "how-to" information that we cannot give to a DIY.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by georgestolz:


Scott, you've never seen a defective breaker? I've seen one (and only one) on a brand new service.
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Actually George I have seen defective breakers. Installed some too. :mad: What I was getting at is the fact that it seems to be a knee jerk reaction for homewoners when something goes wrong. I get the "I have a bad breaker" calls alot and have yet to have one actually be a bad breaker.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violate any law.


Scott, A breaker is defective when it keeps tripping, thats why they sell those single pole 30's at the Home Depot.

Clearly missleading and false and borders on harrassing

the humor displayed here is juvenile,try not to be so obtuse
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Charlie, I did not mean to disrespect you. I do consider myself within the realm of professionals in the electrical trade. However, each of us have individual area's within that. I just thought your statement was a little to broad. Just because some one is a professional does not mean they will not make a mistake, and by all means does not mean they are completely ethical. Granted being a professional means they certainly should be but the PE credo does not apply to all. And also it is only agreed to by the person. Just like the Doctors hypocratic oath (can be a little hypocritical sometimes).
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Clearly misleading and false and borders on harassing
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honeyfarmer: WOW! that seems mild compared to the harassment i've seen here,,,mostly good natured, some not.
Not to say that you don't deal with it every day, but I think Scott hit the nail on the head, good-natured, with that comment.
Sometimes it scares me to recall the number on DYIs that have made that statement, having no idea that there might be some harm in replacing their tripping 20 amp breaker (obviously defective since it trips) with a 30. I, for one, find his statement a bit humorous since there is so much truth in it.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by honeyfarmer:


Clearly missleading and false and borders on harrassing

the humor displayed here is juvenile,try not to be so obtuse
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Forgive me if I am missing the obvious here but are you serious?
If you are joking ( and I would hope you are) you should add one of these lil fellas. :D
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Magoo 66

I read the post and don't post very much and even get a laugh at my ridiculous post now and then, not that they are funny but stupid.

I think that was the cutest and funniest one I've read yet, you need to be a stand up comedian. :D :D
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by petersonra:
A polite explanation and admonishment to seek help from an appropriate source might actually cause him to take that route. The rude and obnoxious approach will cause him to think poorly of you and he is likely to just keep going on his merry way.

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You are free to take the approach you see fit. I prefer a little humor mixed in. Makes life a little more enjoyable. I care not what anyone thinks of me. :)

The first two lines of the thread were kind of funny don't you think?

[ November 04, 2005, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

There are many areas that allow homeownwers to pull permits.From service change outs to complete roughs and trims.These are inspected by local AHJ`s.That ensure that the D.I.Y.S.`s are code compliant in every way shape and form.
Over the years I have seen some really nice work from homeownes some even better than a licensed journeymans work.At least he started his post with (I am not an electrician but have general knowledge with residential wiring)
Jim have you ever given a non licensed friend some fiendly electrical advice ? Does that put you in line for jail time? :D
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

I stepped on something down there in the bowels of my van floor. I heard it go crunch. I looked way down there and can honestly say I now have a brand new defective circuit breaker... :cool:
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

I surprised that broke it. Those cases are pretty tough......unless you broke off the handle, I can see that happening.

Take that back to the Home Cheapo. Thats what all the DIYers do and if your not careful you can accidentally buy it back cause it will probably go back on the shelf!
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Hello and thank you for taking time to read my post. I am not an electrician, but have general knowledge with residential wiring. I was replacing a defective breaker in a friend of mine's main service panel when I noticed something.

The neutral coming from the meter base into the panel was connected to the ground buss bar and the ground coming in was connected to the neutral buss bar, the neutral jumper bar was in place. Is this something that he should be concerned with? Should he call a qualified electrician to take a look or is this normal?

Thanks again for your time.
Rex


He was polite ,tactfull ,declared he was not an electrician and asked if we thought he/his friend should hire a Qualified Electrician ,He was probably bright enough to replace the bad breaker with same amperage and type

I've been on job sites with over 200 electricians it is clear we are not all equal in all aspects and a few whom I would say barely qualified at all .Our trade is at the top of the construction ladder in pay and knowledge
The heading at the top of the page states NEC INTERNET CONNECTION and I can see how one would google and find this site and should be respected for asking a carefully worded code question and for our thoughts on hiring a qualified man if we thought there was a code violation
And members make snyde comments at the expense of the poster and violate our own forum rules
Would Mike Holt be proud ?
does anyone here advocate that kind of behavior ?
I thought this was a forum to gain knowledge ,pass it on and become even higher rated in the field
whats the point to ask a code question if you are going to made fun of and harrassed by those who profess to know the answers to your questions
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

I have forgotten more than everyone on this forum will ever know and of course have no need to participate except for the entertainment factor.I will now address honeyfarmers concerns without fear of retribution. This forum has rules of participation. The originator of this thread stated he was not an electrician. That should have been the end of the thread. There are a dirth of moderators available.
:eek:
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Well, Charlie B is a moderator who has weighed in, and he said it's OK to provide information along the lines of whether something someone saw is safe and correct. That's why I responded to the original post the way I did, and I limited my response to that.
 
Re: Neutral on the ground bar?

Originally posted by g3guy:
I have forgotten more than everyone on this forum will ever know and of course have no need to participate except for the entertainment factor.
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LMAO, now statements like that are very entertaining.

I love to watch the 'all knowing ones' crash and burn
 
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