Neutral strap cut

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While I don't like it, I would probably pass it.

With some of the stuff I see, I'm just impressed that he knew that he needed to seperate them.:happyyes:
 
The code violation, if you're looking for chapter and verse, would probably be 110.3(B).

My concern would be whether the cut strap is adequately secure, which I can't tell from the picture. If it could possibly fall out of position (in an earthquake, or just if a door is slammed?) then I'd be concerned about the safety of it. If I was satisfied it was secure, I'd call it safe. Pass/fail I won't weigh in on. :roll:
 
jaggedben said:
The code violation, if you're looking for chapter and verse, would probably be 110.3(B).

My concern would be whether the cut strap is adequately secure, which I can't tell from the picture. If it could possibly fall out of position (in an earthquake, or just if a door is slammed?) then I'd be concerned about the safety of it. If I was satisfied it was secure, I'd call it safe. Pass/fail I won't weigh in on. :roll:
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It depends on your definition of adequately secured at that point :D . I've seen some ...quite a few different brands... panels where the neutral bus bar couldn't get any closer to the word floating. There is only so much you can do while securing with plastic. :happyyes:
 
Thats a Bull install:rant:. Amazing! I just ran into this a few weeks ago. Except it was a main breaker homeline panel that was being used as a sub panel. And they did exactly what was done in your picture. I went to add 4 more circuits and had no where to land the neutrals because some wonderful person broke the tab and loaded up one side of the neutral bar. All he had to do was install a grounding bar.
Remember, Always think a:thumbsup:bout the next guy, because the next guy could be you.
 
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kwired said:
Probably fail for stupidity, but safe.

Square D main lug panels come with a equipment ground bar - is is much faster and easier to install than what was done here. If the bar was lost a replacement cost same or even less than the add on lug that was installed on the EGC side in the photo.
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Are you sure about that, I just installed one and still they don't come with them even after I called them and complained, this is the second time someone from Square D acted surprised when I told them they include them when you get a panel with a main breaker (which is when you don't need one) and even have them already installed, but with a main lug they don't:rant:

As far as that panel, I have said before Square D panels are not listed to remove or alter the jumper bar, someone posted a link to this on Square D's site once.

also those red bushings are not listed for NM cable much less then for the SER cable as it does not secure the cable to the enclosure, even if it was how many NM would you be allowed to put in one?

Is it safe, well not sure about the red bushings if they will prevent the cable from shorting on the KO opening but at least the bar he used for EGC's was bonded to the box, I have found these where the whole bar was removed and the box had no bonding and had conduit run to it, it was caught because there was no grounding path on any receptacle in the garage it was installed in. one of our guys got a good chewing for that one.
 
jaggedben said:
The code violation, if you're looking for chapter and verse, would probably be 110.3(B).

My concern would be whether the cut strap is adequately secure, which I can't tell from the picture. If it could possibly fall out of position (in an earthquake, or just if a door is slammed?) then I'd be concerned about the safety of it. If I was satisfied it was secure, I'd call it safe. Pass/fail I won't weigh in on. :roll:
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The remaining part of the strap and the side used for equipment grounds is as secure as it was before they cut the strap. The bonding screw is holding it in place near the cut end and the other end is exactly like it was when it left the factory.

How secure the neutral side may be is questionable.

hurk27 said:
Are you sure about that, I just installed one and still they don't come with them even after I called them and complained, this is the second time someone from Square D acted surprised when I told them they include them when you get a panel with a main breaker (which is when you don't need one) and even have them already installed, but with a main lug they don't:rant:

As far as that panel, I have said before Square D panels are not listed to remove or alter the jumper bar, someone posted a link to this on Square D's site once.

also those red bushings are not listed for NM cable much less then for the SER cable as it does not secure the cable to the enclosure, even if it was how many NM would you be allowed to put in one?

Is it safe, well not sure about the red bushings if they will prevent the cable from shorting on the KO opening but at least the bar he used for EGC's was bonded to the box, I have found these where the whole bar was removed and the box had no bonding and had conduit run to it, it was caught because there was no grounding path on any receptacle in the garage it was installed in. one of our guys got a good chewing for that one.
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I am not as certain about Homeline panels but I have never had a QO main lug panel that did not come with an equipment grounding bar - except the 6 and 8 circuit models where the bus runs horizontally.

I also buy from supply house that is a Square D autorized dealer. I have noticed equivelant models from big box stores are not packaged same way as what you get at supply house. If you are purchasing at big box - who knows what you get.

I have also never seen a Square D main breaker panel that included an equipment ground bar - unless it came from big box store.
 
kwired said:
The remaining part of the strap and the side used for equipment grounds is as secure as it was before they cut the strap. The bonding screw is holding it in place near the cut end and the other end is exactly like it was when it left the factory.

How secure the neutral side may be is questionable.



I am not as certain about Homeline panels but I have never had a QO main lug panel that did not come with an equipment grounding bar - except the 6 and 8 circuit models where the bus runs horizontally.

I also buy from supply house that is a Square D authorized dealer. I have noticed equivalent models from big box stores are not packaged same way as what you get at supply house. If you are purchasing at big box - who knows what you get.

I have also never seen a Square D main breaker panel that included an equipment ground bar - unless it came from big box store.
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I never thought that it would be different as to where you get it from, but you know I think you might be right, the only supply house around here that has SD is All Phase, but they have played too many games with me on pricing that I do not like to deal with them, they once quoted me Square D's listed price for a panel that was ridiculous, 20 space main breaker QO for over $400.00 that I could get anywhere else for around $100.00 with 5 20 amp breakers included, and I don't even want to talk about their wire prices, but if that is how they want to play then I'll go else where as I keep my customers in mind as it is there money that I'm spending.
 
roger said:
I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the manufacturer making this a possible violation so that the customer has to spend additional money for a ground bar kit. There are more than enough slots for every circuit to have its own neutral and EGC's so they should provide a way to separate the bars, I would pass it.

Roger
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I agree that trying to increase the money they make over such a small design issue to force us to buy these grounding bars makes no sense, ITE and a few others do it with no problems, don't get me wrong as I like many of their products, but if we ever had to pay their sugested list price they wouldn't be around very long.

jumper said:
Here is the link that says no cutting the bar...BS IMO.

http://www.schneider-electric.us/si...&country=US&lang=EN&id=FA123020&redirect=true
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Again I agree as I stated above, thank's for the link:thumbsup:
 
I find the answers in this thread to be somewhat ironic. Here we have trades people and inspectors both saying they may not like this or would not have done it this way, but don't see this as a big issue. Meanwhile another camp not so involved with the NEC is more along the lines of hell no. Maybe this is up there with a white wire on a breaker on the violation scale.
 
jimport said:
I find the answers in this thread to be somewhat ironic. Here we have trades people and inspectors both saying they may not like this or would not have done it this way, but don't see this as a big issue. Meanwhile another camp not so involved with the NEC is more along the lines of hell no. Maybe this is up there with a white wire on a breaker on the violation scale.
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I have no problem with a white wire on a breaker either (if part of a cable assembly). If it is landed on breaker and you don't know it is ungrounded.... why is a piece of tape or paint or ink going to change that fact?
 
Will the AHJ will also pass a unlisted panel when a (UL) listed one available?
 
jumper said:
.... never seen a unlisted panel.
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Here below it is without a ground bar?


panel2.jpg
 
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