Neutral strap cut

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jumper said:
TM, that panel alteration may have violated the listing because of mfr. instructions, but it is a listed panel. it is not some home made/counterfeit equipment.
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But it lost its listing due to field alteration and can not be called listed now.Can it be?
 
So, the best solution to this non-problem is to never purchase Homeline products. :thumbsup:

Roger
 
roger said:
I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the manufacturer making this a possible violation so that the customer has to spend additional money for a ground bar kit. There are more than enough slots for every circuit to have its own neutral and EGC's so they should provide a way to separate the bars, I would pass it.

Roger
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That neutral bar is loaded up. What if someone else has to add a circuit in there? So the next guy might land two neutrals under one lug now, or he might do it right and figure a way to add more neutral bar space legally. My point is, it starts at the top.... Do the panel right the first time.
 
i dont like it at all, but, I would have liked it more had they cut and remove the strap to the right of the bonding screw instead of the left. At least then they wouldnt have had to put the small ground wire under the large Neutral Lug and the Larger Neutral conductor under an add-on Lug.
I still dont understand why they didnt just buy a ground bar and do it as it should be done.

Jap
 
Pizza said:
That neutral bar is loaded up. What if someone else has to add a circuit in there? So the next guy might land two neutrals under one lug now, or he might do it right and figure a way to add more neutral bar space legally. My point is, it starts at the top.... Do the panel right the first time.
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Are you sure about that? I would imagine that "neutral" bar is the same length as the other bar. I don't see that exact panel listed in the SD homeline catalog though, so it must be old stock. And that is your biggest concern? Then IF they are the same length bars, what do you say?
 
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Pizza said:
That neutral bar is loaded up. What if someone else has to add a circuit in there? So the next guy might land two neutrals under one lug now, or he might do it right and figure a way to add more neutral bar space legally. My point is, it starts at the top.... Do the panel right the first time.
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The neutral bar is the same length on both sides so, the panel is done right. The manufacturer is trying to force a purchase on the customer that is not needed.

BTW, with the exception of safety, the next guy is not really a concern of mine.

Roger
 
Like I said, I don't necessarly like it, but it's better than the guys that add the ground bar, but don't scrape the paint (250.12) or the ones that just get a bolt on lug and try to put all the ground wires on it.

I've been an inspector for 22 years next month, as far as hack jobs go, this wouldn't even make my top 100 list.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Like I said, I don't necessarly like it, but it's better than the guys that add the ground bar, but don't scrape the paint (250.12) or the ones that just get a bolt on lug and try to put all the ground wires on it.

I've been an inspector for 22 years next month, as far as hack jobs go, this wouldn't even make my top 100 list.
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Do you feel that one needs to scrape paint if installed in the place the manufacturer has designed to accept a specific grounding bar like the panel in this threas has? I only scrape paint when adding a bar or lug not specifically designed to add to the equipment or when placed in location other than where it was designed for (which I almost never do the latter).

Sometimes I have seen Homeline panels that already have grounding bars installed - no scraped paint in those.
 
kwired said:
Do you feel that one needs to scrape paint if installed in the place the manufacturer has designed to accept a specific grounding bar like the panel in this threas has? I only scrape paint when adding a bar or lug not specifically designed to add to the equipment or when placed in location other than where it was designed for (which I almost never do the latter).

Sometimes I have seen Homeline panels that already have grounding bars installed - no scraped paint in those.
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I think John is referring to when it is bolted on, and not tapped and threaded.
 
jumper said:
I think John is referring to when it is bolted on, and not tapped and threaded.
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Even when tapped and threaded I have always scraped paint unless using a lug or bar with manufacturer provided hardware and mounting in a position the manufacturer designates as a place to mount the particular lug or bar. In those cases you would generally expect they had tested and listed if installed that way.
 
kwired said:
Even when tapped and threaded I have always scraped paint unless using a lug or bar with manufacturer provided hardware and mounting in a position the manufacturer designates as a place to mount the particular lug or bar. In those cases you would generally expect they had tested and listed if installed that way.
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Good job, just because it's tapped and treaded doesn't mean there isn't any paint in the holes and according to the code section I quoted the paint is to "be removed from threads and other contact surfaces". So you run a tap through the holes and I'm good, but you know that no one does that.

My point is this, installing a listed ground bar doesn't do you any good if you install it wrong. So yeah his job was a little hack, but it meets code.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Good job, just because it's tapped and treaded doesn't mean there isn't any paint in the holes and according to the code section I quoted the paint is to "be removed from threads and other contact surfaces". So you run a tap through the holes and I'm good, but you know that no one does that.

My point is this, installing a listed ground bar doesn't do you any good if you install it wrong. So yeah his job was a little hack, but it meets code.
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How do you tap a hole without a tap or self tapping screw? The tapping process will remove paint but only in the threads.

Although not required or even mentioned when I mount a ground bar - especially in an outdoor enclosure I like to put a little anti-ox compound between the scraped surface and the bar. I figure why did I scrape that paint if it is only going to rust later on.
 
kwired said:
How do you tap a hole without a tap or self tapping screw? The tapping process will remove paint but only in the threads.

Although not required or even mentioned when I mount a ground bar - especially in an outdoor enclosure I like to put a little anti-ox compound between the scraped surface and the bar. I figure why did I scrape that paint if it is only going to rust later on.
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Well that's kind of my point. There are usually holes in every panel for the "listed" ground bar to be installed in. If you don't have a tap, then you should get one.

I'm just saying that just because someone doesn't like it doen't make it a hack job and just because you did it the way you thought it should be done, doesn't always make it right.

You being a figuretive term of course.;)
 
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