Neutrals with Trace - NEC 200.6(A)(4)

[jap]

Isn't this just a white conductor with blue marks on it? Saying this is not code compliant is moronic. I would reach out to the manufacturer have them explain how their product is code compliant.

It is, but, unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be one of the selections that can be chosen from below.

NEC (2017 version) 200.6(A)(1) reads:
An insulated grounded conductor, #6 and smaller shall be identified by one of the following means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white or gray stripes along the conductor's entire length on other than green insulation.
(4) Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in the braid identifying the source of manufacture shall be considered as meeting the provisions of this section.

I hope they work it out also.

I think sometimes there's too much emphasis put into the wording.
It's hard to write something that will cover all scenarios.

JAP>

 

[kwired]

The rule indicates a tracer in the "Braid".

The wire he is using is not a braided conductor.

JAP>

Guess that is correct but again this section is about identifying grounded conductors not about how to identify which ungrounded conductor they may need to be paired with. I think you have lots of options for that including factory markings or field markings.

Edit: but what exactly is braided conductor other than some the ultra flexible conductors you might run into or some lightning protection conductors?

Only other braiding I am aware of is braided shielding on some types of cables, but that is a cable not an individual conductor.

 

[wwhitney]

Do those blue marks completely encircle the wire? If they don't, then technically the conductor will still have a "continuous white outer finish" because those marks are not breaking the continuity of the white finish (because no part of the white finish is isolated from any other part).
If an exclusively white outer finish (except for printed labeling) is intended, than that could be spelled out more specifically in the code.

While I agree with this interpretation, the only issue I see with it is that it renders (3) and likely (4) moot. A single white stripe may be continuous, while (3) specified 3 white stripes.

I'm unclear in the picture in the OP if the blue marks are a continuous stripe that spirals around the conductor, or are just isolated marks. If isolated marks, then I don't see them as interrupting "continuity" any more than text printed on the conductor insulation.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DC26]

In my opinion, the colored ticks on the wire do not interfere with it being continuously white, especially if they don't completely encircle the wire. Larger conductors can have white stripes instead of being completely white.


Then how do 14-2-2 and 12-2-2 NM get away with it?

The problem is that they DO completely encircle the wire...

 

[DC26]

While I agree with this interpretation, the only issue I see with it is that it renders (3) and likely (4) moot. A single white stripe may be continuous, while (3) specified 3 white stripes.

I'm unclear in the picture in the OP if the blue marks are a continuous stripe that spirals around the conductor, or are just isolated marks. If isolated marks, then I don't see them as interrupting "continuity" any more than text printed on the conductor insulation.

Cheers, Wayne

They don't spiral. They are thin "rings" of blue at intervals on the white wire. The white isn't continuous.

 

[DC26]

It is, but, unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be one of the selections that can be chosen from below.

NEC (2017 version) 200.6(A)(1) reads:
An insulated grounded conductor, #6 and smaller shall be identified by one of the following means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white or gray stripes along the conductor's entire length on other than green insulation.
(4) Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in the braid identifying the source of manufacture shall be considered as meeting the provisions of this section.

I hope they work it out also.

I think sometimes there's too much emphasis put into the wording.
It's hard to write something that will cover all scenarios.

JAP>

Yeah, it's an inspector who thinks their job is to prevent work from happening. The spirit of 200.6 is to make sure you know which wire is the neutral just by looking at it. My install shows an electrician that this wire is the neutral AND ASSOCIATED WITH A "C" PHASE HOT WIRE. I've exceeded the the amount of information the Code wants to convey.

I've been installing wire like this for a long time and spoken to a lot of other very experienced electricians and foremen. Everyone of them says that this is the first they've ever heard of an inspector objecting to this.

 

[wwhitney]

They don't spiral. They are thin "rings" of blue at intervals on the white wire. The white isn't continuous.

Hmm, then it seems clear-cut that they don't comply with the letter of 200.6(A).

Of course, you could point out to the inspector that if they don't comply with 200.6(A), then 200.7(A) would allow their use as an ungrounded conductor. So do they really want to take the position that such a color coding is allowable for ungrounded conductors? I.e. some flexibility in the interpretation of the word "continuous" is required here to get any reasonable result.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[texie]

I would pass this in a heartbeat. It seems to me this meets the intent and spirit of the code and, as the OP pointed out, I think it is a good thing. I think I would just for educational sake reach out to the manufacturer and get their position on this. It would also seem that this is NRTL listed conductor and maybe get their take on it.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Another way to look at is it's a blue wire with large white strips.
I do believe mc home run cable does the same thing.

 

[jap]

Another way to look at is it's a blue wire with large white strips.
I do believe mc home run cable does the same thing.

Then it couldn't be used as the grounded conductor.

JAP>

 

[winnie]

It is, but, unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be one of the selections that can be chosen from below.

NEC (2017 version) 200.6(A)(1) reads:
An insulated grounded conductor, #6 and smaller shall be identified by one of the following means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white or gray stripes along the conductor's entire length on other than green insulation.

By the standards of this inspector, _all_ 'white' THHN conductors would fail the requirements for 'grounded conductors'.

Think about it: when was the last time you installed THHN conductors without some sort of printing on the outside of the insulation. Doesn't sound like a continuous white finish to me

Those blue flecks in the white insulation: just some identification printing. Anyone can see that those are _white_ conductors with some informational marks obscuring a bit of the white.

-Jon

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Then it couldn't be used as the grounded conductor.

JAP>

I was being a little humourous.
However 200.6 (A) (3) #6 and smaller apply.
Blue with three white strip is compliant. " On other than green insulation ".

"Another way to look at is it's a blue wire with large white strips"
I should have said three large white stripes.
Would be nice to see the roll it came off of and the listing of the conductor. Should be sticker on the reel or marking on the package.
We use this type all the time expecially when we have different systems in the same building.
Now if he has different systems of the same voltage in this building he can use 200.6(D) (2).
The language is different the 200.6 (A) 3.
It does say stripe and not marks. That would be the only thing is see. However it does allow a single stripe.
So looking at the pic it may be a stripe running along the conductor in a spiral manor. If so I say it meet the intent of 200.6 (D) (2).

 

[jap]

By the standards of this inspector, _all_ 'white' THHN conductors would fail the requirements for 'grounded conductors'.

Think about it: when was the last time you installed THHN conductors without some sort of printing on the outside of the insulation. Doesn't sound like a continuous white finish to me

Those blue flecks in the white insulation: just some identification printing. Anyone can see that those are _white_ conductors with some informational marks obscuring a bit of the white.

-Jon

My point exactly.

By the way the rule is written, unless the insulation was pure white with no markings on it whatsoever, it wouldn't fly.

And we all know that was never the intent.

JAP>

 

[jap]

I was being a little humourous.
However 200.6 (A) (3) #6 and smaller apply.
Blue with three white strip is compliant. " On other than green insulation ".

"Another way to look at is it's a blue wire with large white strips"
I should have said three large white stripes.
Would be nice to see the roll it came off of and the listing of the conductor. Should be sticker on the reel or marking on the package.
We use this type all the time expecially when we have different systems in the same building.
Now if he has different systems of the same voltage in this building he can use 200.6(D) (2).
The language is different the 200.6 (A) 3.
It does say stripe and not marks. That would be the only thing is see. However it does allow a single stripe.
So looking at the pic it may be a stripe running along the conductor in a spiral manor. If so I say it meet the intent of 200.6 (D) (2).

Yes it is with 3 white stripes,,,, just not 1 large white stripe.

I agree with the poster who mentioned there should be some flexibility on this issue, otherwise it's just a wording argument that cant be won.

JAP>

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

We try to make it easier and safer not to cross grounded conductors during make up and then we get called on it. The marked wire is much better than a tag or tape. However code is code.
I know I would rather see a white wire with a colored strip matching the phase conductor. Nice and clean.
Wonder if he could use the workman like manor here. Go at it in a safety way of thinking.
I'm sure some one will try to change for future code cycle.
Wish him luck.

 

[infinity]

The only thing that should apply here is common sense. You have white insulation with blue marks that makes this a better installation.

Any inspector that fails this because the blue hashes stop the actual white insulation from being continuous is an idiot. By that thinking then tape or the wire markers also shown in the photo keep the white insulation from being visibly continuous.

 

[ActionDave]

I agree. We use white wire with a tracer on almost every job now. No reason to fail such an installation.

 

[jap]

I agree also.
Makes me want to invest in a few rolls of white and gray with tracers.

JAP>

 

[Fred B]

Those hash marks appear to be field applied, not factory, given the inconsistency of spacing of marks. Kind of labor intensive if marking is continuous along the entire length of the installation.
Is the manually markings that it appears to be an attempt to comply with 206(D)?
If it is, then strictly speaking I think these marks must be over the entire length of the conductor to meet the language of the code.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

I'm sure DC 26 can clear the up. It looks factory to me. See post 25.
I missed it at first.
Still full for the guy.