Neutrals with Trace - NEC 200.6(A)(4)

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If anything 200.4(B) possibly needs to have the tracer mentioned as an acceptable means to identify which grounded conductor goes with an ungrounded conductor(s), and maybe wording in 200.6 needs adjusting to clarify. some of what is happening is good methods of safely identifying these conductors as grounded and at same time identifying which other circuit conductor(s) it is part of same circuit with yet can be interpreted as not complying with wording as is currently written.

200.6 tells us how to identify a conductor as a grounded conductor, yet doesn't really give any allowances on how to identify those conductors for other purposes. If you pulled multiple white conductors in a raceway, the chance of error increases with any field identification method, if the conductor already has some feature from factory that can be used for identification I think most of us will agree is better and lessens chance of errors. Having some marking on a mostly white background is better way of doing this than field identification though you about need to allow field identification as well.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
If anything 200.4(B) possibly needs to have the tracer mentioned as an acceptable means to identify which grounded conductor goes with an ungrounded conductor(s), and maybe wording in 200.6 needs adjusting to clarify. some of what is happening is good methods of safely identifying these conductors as grounded and at same time identifying which other circuit conductor(s) it is part of same circuit with yet can be interpreted as not complying with wording as is currently written.

200.6 tells us how to identify a conductor as a grounded conductor, yet doesn't really give any allowances on how to identify those conductors for other purposes. If you pulled multiple white conductors in a raceway, the chance of error increases with any field identification method, if the conductor already has some feature from factory that can be used for identification I think most of us will agree is better and lessens chance of errors. Having some marking on a mostly white background is better way of doing this than field identification though you about need to allow field identification as well.
Very well put.

JAP>
 

DC26

Member
Location
Washington, DC
Those hash marks appear to be field applied, not factory, given the inconsistency of spacing of marks. Kind of labor intensive if marking is continuous along the entire length of the installation.
Is the manually markings that it appears to be an attempt to comply with 206(D)?
If it is, then strictly speaking I think these marks must be over the entire length of the conductor to meet the language of the code.
The marks are factory applied. My photo may not be the best but they’re approx 1/8” wide and spaced every 2”.

The marks are to make compliance with 200.4 easier for the electrician in the field.
 

Tulsa Electrician

Senior Member
Location
Tulsa
Occupation
Electrician
There choices out there for a verity of marking. I feel this is so both 200.4 and 200.6 can be applied. In some AHJ areas a different identification method is required. This is for good reason. I worked in an area where branch circuit wiring of different systems had to be identified based on the system.

An example of this is where we had a 277/480 volt service with three SDS wich was 120/208 then we had a 240 volt three wire.
for the 277/480 volt system the had a rule of: Brown, Orange, Yellow, Gray. The SDS was 120/208 volt system Black,, Red ,Blue, White.
As long as the three different 120/208 volt systems did not occupy the any common enclosures White could be used with all three systems as long as all cover were properly marked. By this I mean what we usually do any way: LV-1, cir # 12 etc. The marking was an option as not listed in the amendments. Recommended however not mandated.
We were allowed to use a single or multiple striped running along the conductor as an identifier for all grounded conductors for the wye systems as long as it was maintained all the way through that system and did not as mentioned above.
Here is where it was tricky. It had a three wire 240 volt only corner grounded system as well. So the rules changed the white grounded phase conductor had to have a encircled identifier. In this case it was a red identifier. The B phase had to be the grounded phase. This meant these conductors had to be Black, White with Red circle and Blue.

Basically it was defined as WYE plain or striped running along the conductor. Delta encircled around the conductor.

The nice thing about this are of work was the AHJ worked closely with all the supply house in the area so the correct conductors were stocked even the Big Box stores. What happens is this information is not used correctly in the field in this area and many violations accrued. The guys buying wire started to make up there own rules when these types hit the supply house. Which was fine until a different system (s) was installed in the same building and then they failed. This was in new and remodel. The system identification legend was required to be at the point of entry of the service (s). The AHJ would go to this legend prior to his inspection, 200.6(D) (3) second paragraph.

I would recommend to read through article 200 closely paying attention to 200.6 and check for AHJ amendments. If a change in the NEC was made I would think the language should be thought through closely. See PIC.

Even with the AHJ rule you see that some latitude was given when it made good sense and made for a safer condition. The when it posed a hazard they did not and a correction was required. It pays to check and be up on local amendments and have a good working relation ship with the AHJ.

I also have worked in an area where we has to use a different striped wire for each systems grounded conductor using multiple SDS's. By this I mean white with back strip on system 1, white with Red on system 2, White with blue system 3 and so on. Now this was also a spec job. They felt it meant the intent of 200.6 (D). Sorry I do have a copy from spec book to show. This was years back.

On a personal note I would talk with the AHJ and explain your position discuss pros and cons and its impact on safety. You may be surprised.
Bull in china closet only breaks china.

I also have weekly conversations with other on the topic of article 200. When they miss use the word neutral which as fine as long as they know the difference. I usually start with turn your book open , if you have one and turn to article that applies please. They usually end up in the index.
" Neutral see also Conductors, grounded:


On an unrelated post on production versus experience. UMM, sure you would like to hear the whole story. Each has its place and one of them will not provide the other, choose wisely.


Edited
 

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
There choices out there for a verity of marking. I feel this is so both 200.4 and 200.6 can be applied. In some AHJ areas a different identification method is required. This is for good reason. I worked in an area where branch circuit wiring of different systems had to be identified based on the system.

An example of this is where we had a 277/480 volt service with three SDS wich was 120/208 then we had a 240 volt three wire.
for the 277/480 volt system the had a rule of: Brown, Orange, Yellow, Gray. The SDS was 120/208 volt system Black,, Red ,Blue, White.
As long as the three different 120/208 volt systems did not occupy the any common enclosures White could be used with all three systems as long as all cover were properly marked. By this I mean what we usually do any way: LV-1, cir # 12 etc. The marking was an option as not listed in the amendments. Recommended however not mandated.
We were allowed to use a single or multiple striped running along the conductor as an identifier for all grounded conductors for the wye systems as long as it was maintained all the way through that system and did not as mentioned above.
Here is where it was tricky. It had a three wire 240 volt only corner grounded system as well. So the rules changed the white grounded phase conductor had to have a encircled identifier. In this case it was a red identifier. The B phase had to be the grounded phase. This meant these conductors had to be Black, White with Red circle and Blue.

Basically it was defined as WYE plain or striped running along the conductor. Delta encircled around the conductor.

The nice thing about this are of work was the AHJ worked closely with all the supply house in the area so the correct conductors were stocked even the Big Box stores. What happens is this information is not used correctly in the field in this area and many violations accrued. The guys buying wire started to make up there own rules when these types hit the supply house. Which was fine until a different system (s) was installed in the same building and then they failed. This was in new and remodel. The system identification legend was required to be at the point of entry of the service (s). The AHJ would go to this legend prior to his inspection, 200.6(D) (3) second paragraph.

I would recommend to read through article 200 closely paying attention to 200.6 and check for AHJ amendments. If a change in the NEC was made I would think the language should be thought through closely. See PIC.

Even with the AHJ rule you see that some latitude was given when it made good sense and made for a safer condition. The when it posed a hazard they did not and a correction was required. It pays to check and be up on local amendments and have a good working relation ship with the AHJ.

I also have worked in an area where we has to use a different striped wire for each systems grounded conductor using multiple SDS's. By this I mean white with back strip on system 1, white with Red on system 2, White with blue system 3 and so on. Now this was also a spec job. They felt it meant the intent of 200.6 (D). Sorry I do have a copy from spec book to show. This was years back.

On a personal note I would talk with the AHJ and explain your position discuss pros and cons and its impact on safety. You may be surprised.
Bull in china closet only breaks china.

I also have weekly conversations with other on the topic of article 200. When they miss use the word neutral which as fine as long as they know the difference. I usually start with turn your book open , if you have one and turn to article that applies please. They usually end up in the index.
" Neutral see also Conductors, grounded:


On an unrelated post on production versus experience. UMM, sure you would like to hear the whole story. Each has its place and one of them will not provide the other, choose wisely.


Edited
One thing that gets me is code says must be identified by phase and system. Yet there are places that may have 480/277 service voltage with the typical BOYG color scheme but have multiple 208/120 wye systems or even some 120/240 single phase systems also on the premises. As I read it those multiple systems should each have separate identification yet most only identify (all of) them with the typical BRBW color scheme. How does that differentiate 208/120 system A from 208/120 system B? If it were high rise and you always had a 208/120 to supply an individual floor and nothing else, maybe that would be fine. But I been in some places where you will never easily guess what system you are being supplied from, and could easily be one further away than the closer source you might assume it to be.

Not as worried about the ungrounded conductors but can be easy to interconnect grounded conductors and never know it.
 
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