New Light fixtures, old wiring.

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wireman3736

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Vermont/Mass.
I know most every electrician has gone to a customers home to replace existing light fixtures with new ones, Now this house that I go to has old BX and the new light fixtures were special ordered from some foreign country and the house is an expensive old colonial and who knows whats in the walls, you move slowly so you don't knock over a priceless piece of art. :roll:

Now when you open the box the $500.00 fixtures say the house wiring must be 75 deg C or some may say 90 deg C. I would like to know how others would deal with this, refuse to install them, tell them you'll need to re feed the outlets or are there some tricks of the trade that others may apply to this situation. ;)
 
stickboy1375 said:
Do they need to be? just asking...
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I dunno :-?

I recall working at a movie theater rehab..the lighting was failed as the theater owner wanted to create some sort of "ambiance" with his own home-made "chinese laterns".

This just in:
A pamphlet entitled Luminaires Marking Guide, available from Underwriters Laboratories Inc., was developed to help the authority having jurisdiction quickly determine whether common types of UL-listed fluorescent, high-intensity discharge, and incandescent fixtures are installed correctly
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From commentary following 404.6 2002 NECH

[Luminaires Marking Guide]

Lemme know what you find....it's feeding time for me :grin:
 
I was just curious, I have alot of New York clients find these old non-electric fixtures, and they have them wired up, some come with stickers, most don't... I found this statement on a few sites...


UL Approval:

Most of our reproduction fixtures can be UL listed. Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. is a nationally recognized safety-testing agency that develops and regulates standards for lighting devices. In some cases UL listing involves practices and materials that differ somewhat from earlier practices. On fixtures that include loop to connections (which is quite a few) or chain, we prefer the appearance of the old-fashioned cloth covered wire over the plastic wire and shiny copper ground wire required by a UL listing. Fixtures with no exposed wiring will be sent with a UL label affixed. On those with exposed wiring, the choice is yours. If you prefer the small increase in safety, or are required to have a UL label, request a UL listing on the order form and we will wire accordingly.
 
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My take on this is, that if I build or renovate an antique fixture there is nothing requiring it to be listed. The 90 degree instructions included in new listed fixtures is simply manufacturers CYA.

Jim, romex has 90 deg insulation, it's ampacity is 60 deg, so it is in compliance with the instructions.

Roger
 
roger said:
My take on this is, that if I build or renovate an antique fixture there is nothing requiring it to be listed. The 90 degree instructions included in new listed fixtures is simply manufacturers CYA.
Jim, romex has 90 deg insulation, it's ampacity is 60 deg, so it is in compliance with the instructions.
Roger
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I agree but don't try and install a non listed light in NC. I believe we are the only state that requires listing .
 
Dennis, given the fact that fixtures in most rooms are not required by the NEC, all you would need to do is wait until after the final or C.O. to install what ever fixtures you choose to use.


Roger
 
roger said:
Dennis, given the fact that fixtures in most rooms are not required by the NEC, all you would need to do is wait until after the final or C.O. to install what ever fixtures you choose to use.

Roger
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I usually tell my clients that I need listed fixtures. Did you ever notice that some of the listed fixtures look more dangerous than some of the unlisted ones.
 
wireman3736 said:
What was the original Question:-?
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I am sorry we did get off topic as usual. Now what was your question????

I guess the honorable thing to do is either rewire where you can or put up fixtures that don't require 75 or 90 degree. If the fixture is a semi flush type or pendant then it shouldn't matter. The two other choices you have are to let someone else do the job or do like Jim said ignore it. I tend to make the HO get a different fixture.
 
My high end clients that get these fixtures from other countries tend to want to have their circuitry upgraded if presented with this problem. If not then what is the wiring carataristics of the fixture in relation to the wiring it is to be connected to? As long as the supply wires are better rated than the fixture wires, you should be good
 
stickboy1375 said:
Didn't Roger sum it up in post #7?
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But that's Rogers opinion not necessarily what the code says to do--- no offense meant roger. If you use listed or labeled equipment you have to install it to the instructions art.110(3)(B) but we all know that.
 
stickboy1375 said:
The question was does it need to be 90* wire... Roger answered that question in post #7... IMO.
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Now we have 2 opinions--- I am just trying to understand why it would not, according to code, need 90 degree wiring.
 
stickboy1375 said:
The real question is this, is that UL sticker talking about 90* insulation, or 60* ampacity ?
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If the fixture says, and many do, use wire rated for 90 degrees and you have BX then it will not comply. I don't see the distinction in this amp. vs insulation
 
stickboy1375 said:
The real question is this, is that UL sticker talking about 90* insulation, or 60* ampacity ?
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Roger statement about amp. and insulation was about romex we use today. I think
 
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