New service install

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Fred B said:
Looks like a handle lock to prevent breaker from being unintentionally turned off.
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will there ever be an end to dumb proofing an electrical system. Not critiquing you its just the code has become so overboard on many potential what if scenarios, maybe some people simply shouldn't have electricity within their finger tips.
 
Another C10 said:
will there ever be an end to dumb proofing an electrical system. Not critiquing you its just the code has become so overboard on many potential what if scenarios, maybe some people simply shouldn't have electricity within their finger tips.
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I have no issue with there being such a locking device, but do sort of have issues with any locality requiring use of them.
 
Tulsa Electrician said:
Do they also require battery back up as well?
I can see why they may do it as an amendment.
I take it they will also not allow any other items added to this circuit.

I would like to read it just for my own curiosity.
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Attached is New Castle County Delaware Smoke/Carbon Policy for dwelling Units. The section below explains the need for the circuit breaker handle device. Also as previously discussed the breaker will still " trip " if needed. You can't have it " ground fault protected ". And I read in between the lines it should not be arc fault protected. You want it to detect smoke not " trip " before it can do its job.

*Power to hard-wired alarms shall come from a dedicated circuit OR the unswitched** portion of a branch circuit. **Unswitched means that the operation of a switch or ground-fault-circuit-interrupter
 

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paulcoulston said:
You want it to detect smoke not " trip " before it can do its job.
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That’s what the batteries are for. I put mine on the lighting to make it obvious there’s a trip. Not that a dedicated smoke circuit should ever trip, but I’ve been in peoples houses where they’ve taken the smoke detectors down and removed the batteries to stop them from chirping, and then never put it back. I know you gotta do what the ahj says but that seems like a shortsighted requirement.


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paulcoulston said:
Attached is New Castle County Delaware Smoke/Carbon Policy for dwelling Units. The section below explains the need for the circuit breaker handle device. Also as previously discussed the breaker will still " trip " if needed. You can't have it " ground fault protected ". And I read in between the lines it should not be arc fault protected. You want it to detect smoke not " trip " before it can do its job.

*Power to hard-wired alarms shall come from a dedicated circuit OR the unswitched** portion of a branch circuit. **Unswitched means that the operation of a switch or ground-fault-circuit-interrupter
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Not going to go into whether or not we should or should not have AFCI requirements, but NEC has early on in the AFCI requirements made it clear they intend to protect "outlets" in the rooms mentioned in 210.12. A smoke alarm has an outlet by NEC definitions.

And yes that is part of what the battery is for in majority of those devices so they will still function even if AC power is lost.
 
paulcoulston said:
*Power to hard-wired alarms shall come from a dedicated circuit OR the unswitched** portion of a branch circuit. **Unswitched means that the operation of a switch or ground-fault-circuit-interrupter
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Since when is a GFCI a switch?

Tom Horne
 
paulcoulston said:
*Power to hard-wired alarms shall come from a dedicated circuit OR the unswitched** portion of a branch circuit. **Unswitched means that the operation of a switch or ground-fault-circuit-interrupter
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I love this stern yet passive rule , hard-wired alarms shall come from a dedicated circuit OR .... portion of a branch circuit.
which is it ..

and ahh , while your at it make sure not to put those fire alarms on a switch leg .. got it . 😏
 
Thank you for posting the Policy.
Read through it. Its nice when an AHJ put thing in writing and also applies some common sense as well.
As far as a breaker lock goes I do not see where it is required until you comply with R314.7 Fire alarm systems. I did not read where it required for your installation. please feel free to point out, I miss thing at times.
I did not read where a dedicated circuit is required as well i see it as optional for your installation. I do see how it would apply to R314.7 Fire alarm systems. I did read where they did not want it on a GFCI circuit and that makes sense. So if for some reason it (smoke detector outlet) was tapped from a branch circuit that has a combination ARC/GFCI device than it would be in violation.

As far as being a a good idea to do so, I get it. Its not an expensive item to install other than the dedicated feed to the first location and the branch circuit over current device. After that they have to interconnected anyway. Plus its bid into every job and all on the same playing field. The KISS rule applys ( keep it simple silly). If R314.7 Fire alarm systems, i would think it would have to be red in color however that may or may not apply to your area.

I do like the way they defined existing dwelling applications. I have read here on this site where that has been an issue when doing other work.

Thanks again for some good read and information.
 
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