new title 24 requirements effective 01-01-14 in calif.......

[Fulthrotl]

my understanding is they are going to sample between 10% and 12% of all jobs.
half paperwork, half field audit.

interesting note on this. that 10%~12% figure seems to be holding, but
what they sample can be any of your certifications.

got two notices of audit yesterday, and one of them was for the second job
i ever recorded. so, they might audit the one you just clicked on, they might
audit the first one.

 

[Sierrasparky]

From what I hear the upcoming code for 2017 will eliminate much of what requires testing today.
The boom of work will disappear

 

[Fulthrotl]

From what I hear the upcoming code for 2017 will eliminate much of what requires testing today.
The boom of work will disappear

good to know. glad you cleared that up.
by the way, it goes in three year increments...

2013 + 3 = 2016. there is no T24:2017

i've looked at T24:2016 for changes, and, well,
it seems it's a bit more stringent. the only hotly contested
area is lighting retrofits, with exempting them from
certification, but as of late sept. nothing had been decided.

it is a relief that you say it's mostly going away, however.
did you base this on California's time honored tradition of systematically
reducing laws and regulations, or some other criteria?

 

[Sierrasparky]

good to know. glad you cleared that up.
by the way, it goes in three year increments...

2013 + 3 = 2016. there is no T24:2017

i've looked at T24:2016 for changes, and, well,
it seems it's a bit more stringent. the only hotly contested
area is lighting retrofits, with exempting them from
certification, but as of late sept. nothing had been decided.

it is a relief that you say it's mostly going away, however.
did you base this on California's time honored tradition of systematically
reducing laws and regulations, or some other criteria?

I heard from a Lighting retrofitter and just looked at the transcript that the Energy commission voted 5-0 to approve the language for Retrofits a couple of weeks ago, I also think that there is a threshold where Acceptance testing is not required.

Basically renovations are on the honor system in 2017

 

[KD4315]

not at this point. that comes later, most likely for
the folks who aren't complying voluntarily. not every
building inspector in calif. is going to demand the paperwork
before issuing a final. some will, some won't.

and the uniform reaction is usually....
HOORAY! we dodged a bullet. SCREW THOSE GUYS!
we 'don need no stinking cert!

the hook will most likely be set sometime in the future,
when the permit numbers issued are matched against
the certifications recorded on the database, and all the
folks with the unblessed permits are sent a form letter
to please certify their jobs.

a year has gone by, everyone's been paid, retentions are
released, and now, you get to pay for the certification out
of your own pocket, or have your C-10 suspended. it'd be
effortless for the CEC to port all the noncomplying contractors
straight to the CSLB for a spanking. Just like not paying your
workers comp premium will get your license suspended promptly.

the sucker punch won't come from the city, it'll be mandated
by the CEC, and administered by the folks in charge of the
program. one person doing filtering in excel can mail merge
it in a day or so.

there is a three year statute on this. will they do it?
my thought is, they will. it's easily accomplished. if you
take care of it during the construction, you have a mechanism
for recovering the costs as an extra.

a year and a quarter from now? load up your money gun.
you are on your own. what'll it cost? depends on the size
of the job. minimum charge would START at about $2,500.

I know this post is a few months old but you haven't seen an increase in job costs? On the commercial side I'm seeing about a $5 a square foot increase to pre T24 bids.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I know this post is a few months old but you haven't seen an increase in job costs? On the commercial side I'm seeing about a $5 a square foot increase to pre T24 bids.

well... a $90 per room occupancy sensor, or a
$600 per room controller..... yes, that may change the
bid a bit..... yeah, the bids have gone up a lot, i'm sure.
i'm not bidding the stuff, just certifying it.

 

[Fulthrotl]

From what I hear the upcoming code for 2017 will eliminate much of what requires testing today.
The boom of work will disappear

had an interesting talk with an inspector from LA yesterday....

two things he brought up....

1. in 2017, self certification will no longer be permitted. all certification
must be by a third party.

2. apartment buildings will be incorporated, with each specific occupancy
requiring separate certification. :jawdrop:

i was surprised, as i'd not read anything on it yet, but he assured me that
was where it was heading.

don't know if that is statewide, or just LA county.

anecdotally, he mentioned that in the SFV, it seems an acceptance technician
was ordered by his boss to self certify an install that wasn't anywhere near
compliant. seems the guy substituted a number of things.

the upshot was, the acceptance tech lost his certification, and all the jobs
he certified are being reviewed, with noncompliant installs having to be
corrected.

ow. that's gonna leave a mark.

 

[sandsnow]

On the SFV incident,
Did the employer lose his certification as well?
How did they get busted?

 

[Fulthrotl]

On the SFV incident,
Did the employer lose his certification as well?
How did they get busted?

well there is a 10% random audit on certifications you
perform... seems they picked the wrong 10%,
at least from his point of view, i'd imagine.

seems the employer was directing his employee to
"sign it off", and the fellow did.

they don't have to pull his certification, imho.
seeing as they were the contractor of record,
the certification doesn't apply, and the contractor
must make the installation comply. that's gonna
be a pain if they have already gotten paid for it.
getting an extra is harder to do when you've committed
fraud, i'm guessing.

i gather the shortcoming was pretty severe.... so
the fellow would have to put the specified hardware
in per the contract drawings.

i'm speculating here, but it's probably not the only time
this has happened with this fellow.... so most likely they
will go back and revisit every certification the fellow issued.

i ran into one of these sort of situations in LA, looked at the
install, looked at the prints, and about the only thing that
matched between the two, was the building address on the plans
lined up.

after a conversation with the EC, i walked away. he can sort
his own mess out. my father's words echoed......

"don't get any on ya." a good rule for life.

 

[sandsnow]

If I was still working, I'd be all over this for the whole story. Now it's just an interesting story. I gotta get back to reruns of Gilligan island and gunsmoke.

 

[Fulthrotl]

If I was still working, I'd be all over this for the whole story. Now it's just an interesting story. I gotta get back to reruns of Gilligan island and gunsmoke.

ginger or mary ann?
admit it. you are getting bored.

you've watched the professor make batteries from coconuts twice
today, and you are slipping over the edge....

 

[sandsnow]

ginger or mary ann?
admit it. you are getting bored.

you've watched the professor make batteries from coconuts twice
today, and you are slipping over the edge....

Miss Kitty

 

[Fulthrotl]

a little ping to pop this topic back up, just when you thought it
was safe to turn out the lights....

for all you people who have not been californicated with the
title 24 lighting requirements, which can be found in
title 24:2013 part 6, and though it didn't apply to you.....

it still doesn't, but i was told something by someone doing a fair
bit of research on the subject, that the california lighting requirements
are morphing into the national lighting requirements.

yep, the federal government is getting behind this, it appears, and a
national plan may very well be in store.

i can just see the folks in nebraska leaping up and down with joy on this. :happyyes:
i'll post more as i find out if this is truth, or fiction......