NM cable sleeved it conduit outdoors..

[B4T]

One of my biggest gripes is not being able to sleeve NM on the side of a house.. you must use UF cable..

Hv&Lv posted this link on another thread and it gives the specs for NM from Southwire.. http://www.southwire.com/products/RomexSIMpullTypeNMBOEM.htm

Southwire’s Romex? SIMpull? Type NM-B (non-metallic sheathed cable) may be used for both exposed and concealed work in normally dry locations at temperatures not to exceed 90?C (with ampacity limited to that for 60?C conductors) as specified in the National Electrical Code1 NM-B cable is primarily used in residential wiring as branch circuits for outlets, switches, and other loads. NM-B cable may be run in air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are not subject to excessive moisture or dampness. Voltage rating for NM-B cable is 600 volts.

IMO NM sleeved in PVC with sill plates caulked on both ends fits the description of "normally dry location" and "not subject to excessive moisture or dampness"..

So what do you guys think..

 

[Gac66610]

what about condensation on the interior of the conduit, the air inside will warm up with the ambient temp
IMO the air in the conduit will not cool as fast as the ambient air thus making the interior of conduit a damp location, but its JMO

 

[chris1971]

I believe you may still have a water or moisture within the PVC no matter how well it gets sealed.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If the conduit is in a wet location, then per the code rule the inside of that conduit is a wet location.

300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Abovegrade. Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.10(C).

 

[kbsparky]

...IMO NM sleeved in PVC with sill plates caulked on both ends fits the description of "normally dry location" and "not subject to excessive moisture or dampness"..

So what do you guys think..

Your opinion does not count. :happysad: The NEC does. :happyyes:

`nuff said.

 

[ritelec]

Your opinion does not count.

That's Funny.

 

[frankft2000]

Your opinion does not count. :happysad: The NEC does. :happyyes:

I need that on a t-shirt for when i meet with some inspectors! lol

 

[iwire]

Your opinion does not count. :happysad: The NEC does. :happyyes:

`nuff said.

Pretty much, the only options are ignore the clearly written rule or try to have it changed, amended, 'exceptioned' etc.

 

[LEO2854]

Your opinion does not count. :happysad: The NEC does. :happyyes:

`nuff said.

Exception ; When the inspector is not looking....:lol:

It seems that none of the inspector's ever call that out, when romex comes through an outside wall to a box with a light fixture ,or a box with a receptacle both are in a wet location .

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Exception ; When the inspector is not looking....:lol:

It seems that none of the inspector's ever call that out, when romex comes through an outside wall to a box with a light fixture ,or a box with a receptacle both are in a wet location .

In my opinion. NO they are not esp. when they are inside the wall. The code talks of raceway not cabinets or enclosures, jb's and the like.

 

[LEO2854]

In my opinion. NO they are not esp. when they are inside the wall. The code talks of raceway not cabinets or enclosures, jb's and the like.

Good point , so the inspector's are right to allow that.:thumbsup:

 

[growler]

One of my biggest gripes is not being able to sleeve NM on the side of a house.. you must use UF cable..

IMO NM sleeved in PVC with sill plates caulked on both ends fits the description of "normally dry location" and "not subject to excessive moisture or dampness"..

So what do you guys think..

Sitting at a traffic light waiting for it to change I look over at a parking lot and there is a guy pulling NM through PVC to feed a pole light. I think, "what an idiot".

The problem is that there has to be an end to the uses permitted and no matter where the uses permitted ends some people will try to go a step farther.

My biggest gripe is when I see people just saying to heck with code and doing what they want anyway. If we all follow the rules the playing field is level. UF cable doesn't cost me any more than the next guy if he is willing to follow the rules.

I don't always agree with the code but it is accepted practice and as long as I follow the code I shouldn't be in trouble. It's just easier and cheaper to follow code than try to justify doing things in some other manner. NM may work fine sleeved in PVC but just how do you go about proving that?

 

[Bernard1599]

Good point , so the inspector's are right to allow that.:thumbsup:

So, is the inspector also correct to allow NM-B to be run through frame & masonry walls to exterior A/C disconnect boxes and power inlet boxes for generators?

Is there any difference in the individual conductor insulation of UF and NM-B?

Regards,
Bernard

 

[nhfire77]

My biggest gripe is when I see people just saying to heck with code and doing what they want anyway. If we all follow the rules the playing field is level.

I lose jobs to that atitude, and it burns me up just a little. After losing a bid, I may get a different one later for the same facility. I always inspect what was done on the one I lost. I do it to learn if they did it a better faster and cheaper way. Or, more often than not I get to see the corners cut, yet it passes an inspection (if there was one). Being honest doesn't always pay, but it keeps me asleep at night.

I'm sure a lot of you have run into this. Of course, closing a deal by selling yourself and the job done 'right' the first time is a art, and I am beginner at that. Some just see the price.

 

[mlnk]

I think conduit can be run under shelter from the rain using the 45 degree driven rain rule and not be considered to be in a wet location. Does this mean you can use indoor fittings and NM inside the conduit?

 

[satcom]

Did you ever notice how black mold forms on the NM paper wrap when you demo one of those class NM in emt outdoor jobs?

 

[LEO2854]

I lose jobs to that atitude, and it burns me up just a little. After losing a bid, I may get a different one later for the same facility. I always inspect what was done on the one I lost. I do it to learn if they did it a better faster and cheaper way. Or, more often than not I get to see the corners cut, yet it passes an inspection (if there was one). Being honest doesn't always pay, but it keeps me asleep at night.

I'm sure a lot of you have run into this. Of course, closing a deal by selling yourself and the job done 'right' the first time is a art, and I am beginner at that. Some just see the price.

True some all they see is price.

Selling is an art all by it's self and it takes a while to get good at it, but there are lots of good books on the subject happy reading..

You want to sell the best and get them to pay top dollar as well and you must be willing to walk away if you can not convince them you have the best product to sell.:thumbsup:

 

[LEO2854]

So, is the inspector also correct to allow NM-B to be run through frame & masonry walls to exterior A/C disconnect boxes and power inlet boxes for generators?

Is there any difference in the individual conductor insulation of UF and NM-B?

Regards,
Bernard

I do not know if there is a difference except for the outer jacket.

 

[LEO2854]

Did you ever notice how black mold forms on the NM paper wrap when you demo one of those class NM in emt outdoor jobs?

Yes and the inside of the EMT is usually full of rust.

 

[Fulthrotl]

One of my biggest gripes is not being able to sleeve NM on the side of a house.. you must use UF cable..

So what do you guys think..

there are these itty bitts spools of wire you can buy....
and it has marks on it like thwn and thwn-2, and can even
be gotten in stranded.....

they go well with a cutting edge tool called a fish tape...

when i was a FNG, i was told by my journeyman, that putting
romex inside a conduit, irregardless of what the code says or
doesn't say, is a cheezy thing to do, and don't do it.

so i don't.

now, in the area of fish tapes.... there are ones made out of
stainless steel, and aside from the fact that they don't rust,
the difference shoving them thru a pipe as opposed to carbon
steel tapes has to be experienced to be believed.