NM cable sleeved it conduit outdoors..

[ActionDave]

there are these itty bitts spools of wire you can buy....
and it has marks on it like thwn and thwn-2, and can even
be gotten in stranded.....

when i was a FNG, i was told by my journeyman, that putting
romex inside a conduit, irregardless of what the code says or
doesn't say, is a cheezy thing to do, and don't do it.

I agree.

now, in the area of fish tapes.... there are ones made out of
stainless steel, and aside from the fact that they don't rust,
the difference shoving them thru a pipe as opposed to carbon
steel tapes has to be experienced to be believed.

That much better really?

My experience with stainless steel has been the stuff galls up in a second so I never considered buying a stainless steel fish tape.

 

[B4T]

NM may work fine sleeved in PVC but just how do you go about proving that?

On the flip side where is the documentation that provides proof this is a safety hazard and needs to be "against code"..

 

[B4T]

there are these itty bitts spools of wire you can buy....
and it has marks on it like thwn and thwn-2, and can even
be gotten in stranded.....

they go well with a cutting edge tool called a fish tape...

when i was a FNG, i was told by my journeyman, that putting
romex inside a conduit, irregardless of what the code says or
doesn't say, is a cheezy thing to do, and don't do it.

so i don't.

now, in the area of fish tapes.... there are ones made out of
stainless steel, and aside from the fact that they don't rust,
the difference shoving them thru a pipe as opposed to carbon
steel tapes has to be experienced to be believed.

Unless you live in Chicago.. nobody that I know of uses those "itty bitts spools of wire you can buy".... in a residential setting..:roll:

 

[jumper]

I think conduit can be run under shelter from the rain using the 45 degree driven rain rule and not be considered to be in a wet location. Does this mean you can use indoor fittings and NM inside the conduit?

Got an IRC or IBC code section? This ain't a NEC rule.:?

 

[LEO2854]

Got an IRC or IBC code section? This ain't a NEC rule.:?

That must be a local code..

 

[Fulthrotl]

I agree.

That much better really?

My experience with stainless steel has been the stuff galls up in a second so I never considered buying a stainless steel fish tape.

3/4" emt, two t condulets in the run, and eight 90's and a kick, 125' or so long...

my friend mark said "watch this"..... and shoved the thing hand over hand. the whole thing.

my fish tape collection went out of the van.... i have one stainless steel 200'
tape, one 100' nylon tape, one 50' slinky, and that is all i use anymore.

seriously, it'll blow your mind. there is NO reason it should work as well as it does.

as for galling stainless when drilling.... 135 degree split point bits, cobalt hard coat, and tapmatic
cutting fluid, and use the slowest speed and highest pressure you can... ideally, you
want to watch the flukes turning one by one... that slow... i can drill a 1/2" hole thru
3/8" thick 304 stainless in about a minute or so... you drill it fast, and you will work
harden it, and then you are stuck. and once you get the technique down, don't let anyone
use your drill bits... ;-/ good bits are expensive, and most people destroy them on the
first hole.

i used to use a 1/2 hole shooter cause it turns slow, but now i use a 18volt festool drill,
which will drill that slow with full torque.

before i was a sparky, i was a machinist.

 

[iwire]

On the flip side where is the documentation that provides proof this is a safety hazard and needs to be "against code"..

B4T. Try to follow along


NM is listed for dry locations only

Inside a conduit locateced in a wet location is wet.

How is it you don't get this?

Run some THWN or UF and stop whining.

 

[220/221]

Pretty much, the only options are ignore the clearly written rule or try to have it changed, amended, 'exceptioned' etc.

The rule might be clearly written but the definition of wet location isn't.

It is my contention that the exterior of a house isn't normally subject to wetness as we only get 7" of rain per year. Normally it is bone dry.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :lol:

my friend mark said "watch this"..... and shoved the thing hand over hand. the whole thing.

Stainess??? I think I picked one up but didn't notice any difference.

 

[iwire]

The rule might be clearly written but the definition of wet location isn't.

It is my contention that the exterior of a house isn't normally subject to wetness as we only get 7" of rain per year. Normally it is bone dry.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :lol:

See post 5.

 

[kwired]

what about condensation on the interior of the conduit, the air inside will warm up with the ambient temp
IMO the air in the conduit will not cool as fast as the ambient air thus making the interior of conduit a damp location, but its JMO

Condensation happens when the air inside is still warm and the temperature of the raceway wall drops below the dew point of the air inside - Sealing the ends will help keep humid air from entering but it is difficult to get a good enough seal to be perfect - that seal needs to be able to hold pressure or vacuum that will happen with temperature changes to be perfect enough.

I think conduit can be run under shelter from the rain using the 45 degree driven rain rule and not be considered to be in a wet location. Does this mean you can use indoor fittings and NM inside the conduit?

The reason raceways located outdoors are considered wet locations even inside is because of condensation inside the raceway.

I do not know if there is a difference except for the outer jacket.

And paper fillers.

The rule might be clearly written but the definition of wet location isn't.

It is my contention that the exterior of a house isn't normally subject to wetness as we only get 7" of rain per year. Normally it is bone dry.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :lol:





Stainess??? I think I picked one up but didn't notice any difference.

The interior of raceways where you live probably are much drier than other places - they probably do still have some condensation at some time within them.

Next thing we need to ask is if the interior of the "sleeve" is a wet location. NEC is pretty clear interior of a "raceway" outdoors is a wet location, but a raceway is a complete system from enclosure to enclosure, OP has a "sleeve". I am not going to say it is a dry location but this needs consideration. Is it any different than making a similar constructed channel to run the cable through that is not otherwise able to be called a raceway in the right application. A cable fished behind vinyl siding may be a close enough analogy, is it wet or dry in that instance? It is subject to similar conditions.

 

[sd4524]

So what do the code experts think of one of my standard installs: Romex into the back of a bell box, strip the cabling and tear off the paper, and then conduit to the panel or wherever I am going with the wire. No splices, no thwn marked wire.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So what do the code experts think of one of my standard installs: Romex into the back of a bell box, strip the cabling and tear off the paper, and then conduit to the panel or wherever I am going with the wire. No splices, no thwn marked wire.

I think you know the answer to that question.

 

[sd4524]

I'm pretty sure that it is technically a code violation. Am I right?

 

[LEO2854]

I'm pretty sure that it is technically a code violation. Am I right?

Only if you are running it in pipe outdoors.

 

[220/221]

Only if you are running it in pipe outdoors.

And if the pipe outdoors is normally subject to wetness/dampness.


Outdoors doesn't always equal normally subject to wetness/dampness. That's how I choose to read it :happyyes:


It is raining here today, but that aint normal :lol: I suspect thousands will be killed tomorrow due to all the sleeved Romex around here. Pray for us :roll:

 

[satcom]

Save the prayers for the real danger of using an emt sleeve on NM when the sleeve is loosely connected, so when the cable faults, the emt becomes lethal

Some guys will force the NM cable thru a fitting made to accept single conductors and Nick the cable creating a fault.

 

[kwired]

I'm pretty sure that it is technically a code violation. Am I right?

Lets just say there are some conflicts with this practice and what is printed in 310.11 and 310.13.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm pretty sure that it is technically a code violation. Am I right?

Yes it is however I do not believe you would ever have a problem with it but it is a violation. Best to keep some thwn with you or even UF

 

[LEO2854]

And if the pipe outdoors is normally subject to wetness/dampness.


Outdoors doesn't always equal normally subject to wetness/dampness. That's how I choose to read it :happyyes:


It is raining here today, but that aint normal :lol: I suspect thousands will be killed tomorrow due to all the sleeved Romex around here. Pray for us :roll:

You could also drown from all the rain...:lol::roll:

 

[220/221]

Save the prayers for the real danger of using an emt sleeve on NM when the sleeve is loosely connected, so when the cable faults, the emt becomes lethal

What about when the conduit is loosely connected, so when the thhn faults, the emt becomes lethal ? You are describing a sloppy installation. Code can't prevent that.

Some guys will force the NM cable thru a fitting made to accept single conductors and Nick the cable creating a fault

Some guys will do all kinds of stupid stuff, even in "legal" installations.