No Good Options

[roger]

Re: No Good Options

Rhn,

Iwire as far as FPL's strict rules I had a man doing a service change about three weeks ago and the FPL man gave him the connectors to reconnect the service drop. so much for your green book.

I wonder if his superiors know that he is authorizing others to do this work, and I also wonder what the liabilities could be if there were life or property damage after he allowed someone other than an FPL employee to do it.

BTW, I don't believe it is Iwires' Green Book.

Roger

 

[busman]

Re: No Good Options

My original post was about adding a single circuit. As far as working ANYTHING hot, I think you should go back to carpentry if you are "too" comfortable with it; this is when accidents happen. I think most qualified electricians are comfortable to add a circuit in a neat modern panel while energized, especially when the panel is relatively full and most of the unprotected bus bars are covered. For the record, I started the post becuase I recently had to add a 2-pole clothes dryer circuit in one of those old, cramped split bus panels where only two of the six two-pole slots were filled. This left me looking at 4 spaces (well 3 actually after I put the new breaker in) of unprotected bus bar in a very small, messy panel. It was less than ideal, so I got curious about how others do this.

Charlie: Not shy about my nickname. Am I spelling it wrong? Thanks for asking.

 

[charlie]

Re: No Good Options

Am I spelling it wrong?

Mark, you can spell it any way you wish. I just wanted to make sure, I wasn't going where I wasn't welcome. Sometimes I get too nosey and need to be reminded of other people's feelings (I know, guys don't talk about their feelings).

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: No Good Options

If you are going to pull a meter just follow the rules. The utilities here, if requested, will send you how they want EC to handle service changes or service work. Once they get to know you (the local lineman) they will help you out if you prefer.

Let's not forget deregulation. The more this animal takes hold in our state the harder it is to schedule anything. It is very hard to explain to a customer why their meter base has been hanging and the temporary service is still there for 3 weeks because the power co. never showed up. With service like this and getting worse everyday (no fault of the linecrews) more and more EC are taking chances they are not qualified to do.

 

[clayton]

Re: No Good Options

ok,
i would like to hear the answer to busman's question too.

for instance, just hooked up a dryer 220v receptacle. wire is ran back to the box

what's your next step,


a)call poco, and schedule time,?

b)shut of main breaker/disconnect

c)work the panel hot(very poor choice)


clay.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: No Good Options

"Jim you are in FPL's territory correct?"
No i am not.I deal with TECO and PROGRESS

 

[rbalex]

Re: No Good Options

Originally posted by clayton:
ok,
i would like to hear the answer to busman's question too.

for instance, just hooked up a dryer 220v receptacle. wire is ran back to the box

what's your next step,


a)call poco, and schedule time,?

b)shut of main breaker/disconnect

c)work the panel hot(very poor choice)


clay.

I believe Bryan's original reply (second post in this thread) was a good answer. In fact, had "Live Parts" not been redefined, the majority of the 70E Tech Committee (TC) would have said that disconnecting the main would have been sufficient since both the "restricted" and "prohibited" approach boundaries for that class of work is simply "avoid contact" and the "restricted" approach boundary includes an "inadvertent movement" factor.

The previous definition was:

Live Parts:
Electric conductors, buses, terminals, or components that are uninsulated or exposed and a shock hazard exists.

Most of the TC members did not feel that a "shock hazard" usually existed in the work procedure originally described, even if the "live parts" were exposed.

The current definition:

Live Parts. Energized conductive components.

left the TC in something of a quandary and accounts for a large part of the delay in issuing the current version of 70E. It was originally to be the 2003 version.

 

[apauling]

Re: No Good Options

busman: I never pulled a meter unless I was too uncomfortable, but I always ended up getting into more and more questionable situations, the more i did them.

for example I was putting new meter mains on units on a converted military base and there were no distribution disconnects, just the main transformer, run to vaults and distributed to old twin 30 zinsco disconnects on each house, usually mounted too high, so i had to cut pipe live, as well as remove and install new panel.

It wasn't too bad but the contractor I was working for wanted 2 a day. I could not quite do it without taking chances. Since there was no way for me to disconnect in an emergency, didn't even know how and which transformer ran which houses, I was unwilling to push it. I also didn't feel too comfortable leaving the job half done with those old slim blues taped to the wires and the wires unprotected overnight.

There was one day where he called and needed backup across the bay asap and i was pushed to get it safe. I slipped. That was the beginning of my change of heart.It ended up a standoff and we didn't work together again for a while.

I have also spent a lot of time futzing around with panels to try and make it safer without pulling meter. In many places by me, the meters are locked with wrap around locks and there isn't enough in bid for the down time waiting.

I have filled up slots with breakers. I have made cardboard chutes for the wire. I have gone back and forth more times than i can count with some panels. Sometimes I just ate it, rewired the panel as a freebie because i didn't feel comfortable with it, or with leaving it the way i found it.

But it gets old, and now there are cell phones to distract us. It's one thing for me to bite it when I chose to do so, but the idea that I would die because someone else is in a hurry is just not sane.

And I live in earthquake country.

it's your life and you should get to choose when and where to risk it, the vicissitudes of life notwithstanding.

paul

 

[bphgravity]

Re: No Good Options

I have worked with FPL, TECO, Florida Progress, Central Florida Electircal Cooperative, Florida Electrical Coperative Association, Gulf Coast Electrical Cooperative, Peace River Electrical Cooperative and the Orlando Utilities Commission. I am quite positive none of these organizations permit the removal or replacement of meter equipment.

The only exception to this was after the recent hurricanes. Some 60 electrical utility companies came to the area to help with the rebuild and restore efforts. Only then was I peritted to remove the meter from its enclosure, however FPL designated an "agent" to reinstall or replace damaged meters once the equipment was repaired or replaced. I believe the only reason they permitted this was because the entire grid was down. Once areas became restored with power, FPL quickly restored the no meter pulling policy.

I still have customers who are just now coming back to the area to their winter homes still without power. Many of these homes lost their service drops and have significant service damage. Even with no service drop connected to the homes, I am not permitted to pull the meter to begin repairs. Its just the way it is.

I have never had to wait for more than a few hours for a "trouble tech" after calling in an emergency to FPL. For non-emergencies, I usually can schedule the work within a week or two.

 

[ghelec]

Re: No Good Options

Being an ex POCO employee I know how dangerous it is for even someone experienced to pull or reset meters. Without proper training it is best left to the POCO. Never do something you do not feel capable of doing,it is your life you are risking.