No UL listing on equipment, need it for inspector.

[cadpoint]

I believe this is where the last sentence of 90.7 can be relied upon during inspections, especially with foreign made equipment.

When did article 90 anything become part of the code, it says ARTICLE 90 INTRODUCTION.

You state a good point of stating 90.7, but lets use your own statement of 90.7 lets go to FPN No. 3 Annex A, stop go over to 90.3 Annexes are not part of the Code.

But maybe your own thought is the 90's is "Code" based on the opening line of 90.3.

Here?s the definition of introduction
Here's another definition of a word inside the first phrasing of the first definition. treatise

I can't go back farther than 2005 there is some "Bars" in there in 2005 but its the same as 2008 in respects to 90.3(when did that change), that's not how I learned the code.

I guess I've got to re-read how NC adopted the "Code" AGAIN! I can only assume that your logic of the Code is based on your Local AHJ adoption of said Code...

I hate squashing my own arguments ! :grin:

That's OK, I'll sit down and be quite!
I've done learned something, today...
Well that why I'm here! :roll:

 

[iwire]

I would not consider this type of generator as portable.

I would and do, it is certainly not permanent. It is self contained with fuel and is a wired with cord.

There is nothing that says wheels = portability. :smile:

This "Tilt-A-Whirl" is portable but it has no wheels, weighs thousands of pounds and requires a lot of hands to move.

Because a generator can be mounted on a trailer and moved around does not constitute it as being portable.

It does not need a trailer or wheels to be 'portable'

I have seen houses moved on trailers...they are not portable...are they? :grin:

I think Augie covered that.

 

[cschmid]

wow a man works on his boat getting it ready for opening of fishing and look what he misses..

I do agree it is important to assert ones position when correct with the inspector when it is appropriate.

Yet I have meet enough inspectors who each have their own little bents in life and most of the time it is cheaper to comply. Does not mean I will not state my position of opposition. Yet they can cause you several hours of no pay and delayed inspections which equal no pay and the cycle grows quickly. so that is my only point on the issue.

I agree with Bob and augie on these issues and do feel they are correct.

I do agree that equipment needs to be listed yet do not agree it is the inspectors job on portable cord and plug connected equipment. It is not the inspectors job to make sure the refrig, range, dish washer and other similar equipment is UL listed.

I wire a light industrial building that may use CNC lathes that are cord and plug connected,it is responsibility for the cords I install and nothing else. If the factory boys install the cords on the CNC lathes that is there problem not mine and my inspection should not be held up for that. that is my view.

now in the state hospital I have done none of this stuff and do miss it..:smile:

 

[jrannis]

I would ask your inspector if he could refer you to someone that has had a similar problem that was resolved to his satisfaction and see who they brought in.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I would and do, it is certainly not permanent. It is self contained with fuel and is a wired with cord.

There is nothing that says wheels = portability. :smile:

This "Tilt-A-Whirl" is portable but it has no wheels, weighs thousands of pounds and requires a lot of hands to move.

It does not need a trailer or wheels to be 'portable'



I think Augie covered that.

Your argument is ....almost convincing.:grin:

Let me see if I understand your side. If I have large enough equipment to move just about anything that is built, than I would classify that/those structures as portable and we can discard the NEC?

 

[cschmid]

so I a generator is on wheels it is portable but if attached to a skid for theft purposes it is permanent...(scatching head)

If generator is installed for a permanent application such as a hospital it would most likely be permanently install. where as a generator associated with a portable stage operation would be portable.

Such as a machine that the likely hood of it being removed or relocated would normally be considered fixed in place. unlike a unit that would be moved from on process to another process that would be portable even if it took a fork lift or other specialized means.

So where do you call the line on your jurisdiction..how do you make that call and what would you use for the reasoning associated with that call..

 

[iwire]

Let me see if I understand your side. If I have large enough equipment to move just about anything that is built, than I would classify that/those structures as portable

Yes, possibly, when taken into consideration with all other factors but lets not get carried away. :smile:

Here is what you posted. :smile:

2. Portable Cord connected has its limits.
The weight of the equipment makes it not portable.

And my only point has been that weight is not the only factor to determine if something is portable.

Some types of electrical equipment are in fact portable and weigh thousands of pounds.

 

[ultramegabob]

I agree with Bob, if it isnt bolted down and plugs in with a cord, it can be portable, it just depends on how determined you are, it doesnt say it has to be "easily portable" does it?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Yes, possibly, when taken into consideration with all other factors but lets not get carried away. :smile:

Here is what you posted. :smile:




And my only point has been that weight is not the only factor to determine if something is portable.

Some types of electrical equipment are in fact portable and weigh thousands of pounds.

NO pun intended? :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Bob
You are correct, my statement about the weight may have been too general in regards to the topic.

 

[hurk27]

110.2 Approval.
The conductors and equipment required or permitted by this Code shall be acceptable only if approved.
FPN: See 90.7, Examination of Equipment for Safety, and 110.3, Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment. See definitions of Approved, Identified, Labeled, and Listed.

Just a question.
Where does the NEC require or permit a paper cutting machine or any other equipment like this?

From what I was always taught, is that listing and lableing stops at the wires and equipment "required or permitted" by the NEC not what the customer might plug in now or later.

 

[SmithBuilt]

Passed without listing.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[roger]

Roger