Normal time to reconnect after service upgrade?

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iwire said:
As far as the power companies they are all different. For instance a forum member working under FPL was sure they allowed ECs to do cut and reconnect on any service. However when we really looked at the written policy it was very limited. Overhead services, under 200 amps to dwelling units if I recall correctly. But I am sure he was correct that in real life ECs where going well beyond that. It seems to me that it is advantageous to power companies to turn a blind eye to this. As Peter D says it saves them money, but if their policy said you can do it yourself they might be more liable if an accident or property damage happened.


Then there is the live work side of things, and I know electrofelon takes issue with this, but in most cases ECs employees can't do the live work of tying in a service without potential OSHA violations.

OSHA has different rules for people doing line work (linemen) vs people doing building wiring (electricians). In my opinion in order for a typical ECs employees to fall under the rules for line work those employees would need that specific kind of training.


For the record, I understand there is often a huge gap between the rules and the reality. I have cut meter seals and tied hot services in that was what was expected of me with smaller companies. Since about 1997 I have worked for companies that discourage that sort of thing.
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Thank you for your comments. We've been told by lineman that it's okay to cut and reconnect as long it's on the customer's side of the service point. (You end with two sets of splices when you do a re-connect, but whatever.) And of course, that's just something the lineman have told us, not a written policy I've seen. I'm at least as concerned about OSHA requirements and liability there as I am about the utility's policies. It does seem like there is a lack of transparency regarding what is expected/allowed so they can reduce costs without taking on liability, but that's just an overall impression.
 
Phoenix area it is same day. You call POCO coordinator ahead of time and get the first disconnect of the morning and let him know you are going for a same day inspection and reconnect. Ask for an after lunch inspection from the AHJ and then as soon as the City receives the clearance the release the permit for reconnect. Reputation helps with the linemen reconnecting, before the actual clearance is received, if they show up and see the sticker from the city.
 
One of the major problems with having a same day cut and reconnect is our inspections. Every town is different around here - some towns have a part time inspectors who only inspects a few days a week, some have full time inspectors who inspect in the morning, others in the evening, and others inspect all day but only give you a window of when they will be there. Basically, there is no way an inspection is going to happen on the same day. Practically, this means that our services are inspected once we have cut and reconnected them. The inspector will call the service in to the poco as being approved, but at that point it's only so the meter can be resealed.
 
POCO will disconnect 8 to 9 AM. Do your work, call for inspection at 2 PM & power should be back on by 5 PM. Of course this requires coordination among You, POCO, City Inspector. We try to communicate the situation to all involved & usually works out OK 90% of the time.
 
peter d said:
One of the major problems with having a same day cut and reconnect is our inspections. Every town is different around here - some towns have a part time inspectors who only inspects a few days a week, some have full time inspectors who inspect in the morning, others in the evening, and others inspect all day but only give you a window of when they will be there. Basically, there is no way an inspection is going to happen on the same day. Practically, this means that our services are inspected once we have cut and reconnected them. The inspector will call the service in to the poco as being approved, but at that point it's only so the meter can be resealed.
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I can't say how it works in some of the larger cities that have their own inspectors around here, but in the rural and smaller cities - the state electrical inspectors are who does the inspecting. We need a permit before utility will connect/reconnect a NEW service. Does not need inspected before they energize it, just a permit. Many jobs I do are 100 + miles from the inspector's office, no way you are calling at 2 PM an expecting him to come same day or even same week sometimes.
 
peter d said:
What would happen if you actually did cut and reconnect yourself?
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I imagine nothing. What can they do besides scold you? Even where such policies do exist, I find the utility guys out in the field to be fairly lax and understanding. Last year I took over a job where all the meters had been removed and blanked, but someone before me had tapped in to the still live SEC's to run some work power and lights. I think it had been like that for a while. I was working with the utility to get the work order together and plans approved. Got a call from the utility planner who was on site and wanted to go over a few things. At the end of the conversation he says, "oh and I disconnected the power tap, but we should have this hooked up soon...."
 
kwired said:
I can't say how it works in some of the larger cities that have their own inspectors around here, but in the rural and smaller cities - the state electrical inspectors are who does the inspecting. We need a permit before utility will connect/reconnect a NEW service. Does not need inspected before they energize it, just a permit. Many jobs I do are 100 + miles from the inspector's office, no way you are calling at 2 PM an expecting him to come same day or even same week sometimes.
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I was in school with a guy who was an inspector for the Oklahoma State Fire Marshal's office. He said on Monday morning he went to the office and got his inspection route all set up and hit the road. He'd make it back to the office by Friday afternoon. There were only a couple occupancies which even required permits back then. No such thing as local inspections. I think it was assembly and retail with greater than 100 people occupant load required a permit.

I've heard of rural places where you don't need a permit but they ask that you call and let them know if you built something so they can adjust the tax rolls.
 
kwired said:
I can't say how it works in some of the larger cities that have their own inspectors around here, but in the rural and smaller cities - the state electrical inspectors are who does the inspecting. We need a permit before utility will connect/reconnect a NEW service. Does not need inspected before they energize it, just a permit. Many jobs I do are 100 + miles from the inspector's office, no way you are calling at 2 PM an expecting him to come same day or even same week sometimes.
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I don't expect them the same 30 day period anymore and our esteemed Governor put a halt on hiring for any reason plus ordered a 10% budget cut. For others information: Our SED is self supporting and receives no General Fund money of any kind.

:rant:: Rant over.
 
ptonsparky said:
I don't expect them the same 30 day period anymore and our esteemed Governor put a halt on hiring for any reason plus ordered a 10% budget cut. For others information: Our SED is self supporting and receives no General Fund money of any kind.

:rant:: Rant over.
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I don't know all the details of the halt on hiring.

I do know there was recently an open inspector position, and sounded like they were having a little of a hard time finding someone to fill it.

I also know there is at least one other inspector planning to retire very soon, and he covers most of the areas where I work.

I would assume the hiring halt doesn't include hiring replacements like this, if it does that will hurt that department.
 
mgookin said:
I was in school with a guy who was an inspector for the Oklahoma State Fire Marshal's office. He said on Monday morning he went to the office and got his inspection route all set up and hit the road. He'd make it back to the office by Friday afternoon. There were only a couple occupancies which even required permits back then. No such thing as local inspections. I think it was assembly and retail with greater than 100 people occupant load required a permit.

I've heard of rural places where you don't need a permit but they ask that you call and let them know if you built something so they can adjust the tax rolls.
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I can't speak for how it works in Oklahoma, but here the State Electrical Division or even the State Fire Marshal, has no tie to the county assessors so having a permit or other contact with those agencies does nothing for your property tax assessed value.

What does eventually tie you into the assessor is the need for a building permit, this usually just comes into play if you are putting up a new structure or an addition to an existing one. If you just remodel an existing structure you likely won't need a building permit, unless maybe you are making a significant change to the use of the structure, but the electrical division and fire marshal may require permits through their offices.
 
cpinetree said:
Like someone said above, likely a slap on the wrist, but if someone got hurt the lawyers would be buying new houses. :happyyes:
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Exactly that, if nothing goes wrong everything is fine.

Burn down someone's house and suddenly the utility is going to be quick to show their written policies. Nice linemen are not going to be of any help.
 
iwire said:
Exactly that, if nothing goes wrong everything is fine.

Burn down someone's house and suddenly the utility is going to be quick to show their written policies. Nice linemen are not going to be of any help.
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So you're saying that poco's with a written "cut and reconnect" policy are going to throw an electrician under the bus? :huh:
 
peter d said:
So you're saying that poco's with a written "cut and reconnect" policy are going to throw an electrician under the bus? :huh:
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No, I am saying that most power companies do not have a WRITEN cut and connect policy in the first place. And while they let it happen anyway you will be tossed under the bus in a heartbeat if an accident happens.

I am also saying regardless of any written power company policy almost any EC that allows their employees to do cut and connect is going to get bent over hard by OSHA if an accident happens.
 
iwire said:
Exactly that, if nothing goes wrong everything is fine.

Burn down someone's house and suddenly the utility is going to be quick to show their written policies. Nice linemen are not going to be of any help.
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But if you burn the house down it is probably because of something you did inside, not because you reconnected to the utility. Now they may be trying to avoid getting caught up in the lawsuit, but you can also burn down the house if things are done according to laws or policies and they are still possibly caught up in it, they just have a better defense for themselves by having and following such policies.
 
iwire said:
No, I am saying that most power companies do not have a WRITEN cut and connect policy in the first place. And while they let it happen anyway you will be tossed under the bus in a heartbeat if an accident happens.
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I disagree, I don't think that would will find many poco's without some kind of written policy about what you can and can't do in this regard.

I am also saying regardless of any written power company policy almost any EC that allows their employees to do cut and connect is going to get bent over hard by OSHA if an accident happens.
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Yes, certainly OSHA is another matter entirely.
 
I'm sort of thinking that if it ever came to it, the experience that made me start this thread might provide a little clout in court if something ever happened to someone's home. (More likely fried electronics or lost power than burning down the home, but either way...). In other words, if we make the proper application ahead of time, do a cut and reconnect, then e-mail the utility a pic of the green tag, then its on them to come out and make a proper service point splice, upgrade the drop, and whatever else they thought needed doing afterward. And if anything bad happens and they point to their policy, just say well 'this' is what happened when we did it that way. And oh, by the way, nobody ever mentioned or showed us where to find that written policy.
 
iwire said:
You don't think most POCOs do not have direct rule prohibiting cutting a meter seal? :huh:
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Of course they do.

Earlier you said:

iwire said:
No, I am saying that most power companies do not have a WRITEN cut and connect policy in the first place. And while they let it happen anyway you will be tossed under the bus in a heartbeat if an accident happens.
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And I disagreed, I think most, if not all, poco's have a written policy regarding who does the cut and reconnect, just as they have written policies about cutting meter seals and pulling meters. Certainly we know major utilites like FPL, PG&E, National Grid, Nstar and other major utilities that have been discussed on this forum have a written policy.
 
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