North Carolina Code question

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peter d said:
Around here, many dishwashers are hardwired without a disconnect.

I know this is a code violation but it's one of those "regional practices" that is not NEC compliant but inspectors allow.
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What do you mean, "hard wired without a disconnect?" If code calls for a DW to be switched somewhere other than the panel, I just ate my foot:confused:
 
stickboy1375 said:
Yep.. I see it all the time... I do see a few houses from time to time with a switch for a dishwasher on the counter, I used to think that was so strange until I came here and became educated. ;)
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I used to think that was so strange until I came here and became educated.


Are you saying a DW should be switched? If the dishwasher is on a grounded circuit, properly provides a fault path, and can stop cycle by opening the door latch, why does code say it has to have a disconnect other than the breaker:-?
 
This IS an EXACT reason why I like to fix things and stray away from construction. I have yet to get my daughters to bed, but when I do, I will check out that rule. I know NEC goes above and beyond, but on a three-wire circuit, I can't see the reasoning. What about commercial coffee machines, are they obligated to be switched other than at the panel?
 
76nemo said:
This IS an EXACT reason why I like to fix things and stray away from construction. I have yet to get my daughters to bed, but when I do, I will check out that rule. I know NEC goes above and beyond, but on a three-wire circuit, I can't see the reasoning. What about commercial coffee machines, are they obligated to be switched other than at the panel?
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The NEC is bare minimum, not above and beyond, and a coffee pot does not contain a motor, last I knew anyway. ;)
 
stickboy1375 said:
I do see a few houses from time to time with a switch for a dishwasher on the counter, I used to think that was so strange until I came here and became educated. ;)
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I even used to work for an new-construction-only-EC that always put the disconnect for the DW in the 3-gang box by the sink (GFI, disposal switch, DW switch.) I thought it was the dumbest thing I was ever required to do. :rolleyes:
 
That's why I included commercial coffee equipment, grinder in mind. Again, I am not a construction guy, don't pound me. I am just baffled with reasoning.
I do have to disagree with you on code not being above. They have to be, to save our *ss. How many codes have you seen that you question on it's reasoning?
 
76nemo said:
That's why I included commercial coffee equipment, grinder in mind. Again, I am not a construction guy, don't pound me. I am just baffled with reasoning.
I do have to disagree with you on code not being above. They have to be, to save our *ss. How many codes have you seen that you question on it's reasoning?
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Which code do you think is above and beyond reasoning?
 
stickboy1375 said:
Which code do you think is above and beyond reasoning?
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Oh my, that'd be a LONG response. For one, IF you are doing all of the construction on new dwellings, do you see the need for AFCI's on lighting circuits in bedrooms of an occupancy? They are not plug and pull.
This is the very first one to come to mind. I'm sure I'll get hammered on this one to start with. AGAIN, I am not a construction guy. I am just a guy that has the right to question theory I don't understand. Prove me wrong all day long. The more you show me in theory, the more I learn.
What I don't like about this forum is when someone is wrong, they get bashed. I didn't say I was right and you were wrong. I am simply saying,..."I don't know, and wonder why it is so?"
 
stickboy1375 said:
Which code do you think is above and beyond reasoning?
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When I say "Above and beyond", that is nothing more than a HUGE compliment to the NEC. I did not mean redundant, or useless. I meant that with the utmost respect as they deserve.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Dennis, you can't use a breaker lock and meet code if the dishwasher motor is over 1/8 HP, The disconnect switch MUST be within sight of the motor, Unless the appliance has a unit switch that complies with 422.34.


If the dishwasher is not cord and plug connected, and over 1/8th HP, then you must have a disconnect within sight. Hence the switch at the counter. This is a very popular code violation by the way.
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My guess is that most residential dishwashers have a motor smaller than 1/8 HP.
 
Code

Code

The more I ask, the more I learn. I give you guys props for all of the changes in Code you store in your knowledge. I can thumb through a code book all day long, or I can come here and ask other peoples objectives. I had my *ss handed to me tonight. That's a positive thing in my perspective. I was taught tonight something I don't truly understand, yet accept that coming from the real men in the field concerning code. I thank you for that.
I thank you all for the responses and setting my tail straight.
As far as theory, I don't get the whole disconnect issue, but I see now, I can't always assume.
THANKS GUYS/GALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
76nemo said:
That's why I included commercial coffee equipment, grinder in mind. Again, I am not a construction guy, don't pound me. I am just baffled with reasoning.
I do have to disagree with you on code not being above. They have to be, to save our *ss. How many codes have you seen that you question on it's reasoning?
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Well, from what I understand, the code is mainly concerned with safety and in that respect, it does go above and beyond. But it has a disclaimer somewhere that says that it is not in the business of advocating the most efficient or convenient way of doing things, again because true to its mandate safety trumps everything else. e/m
 
So i will assume the inspector would really have a fit if you tried to explain....if the built in dishwasher has an OFF setting that disconnects the ungrounded conductors ala 422.34

Also most of the dishwashers i install today we use a cord which specifically says its use is for dishwashers....same for disposals.

Sounds like my fellow inspector needs to visit 422.34 , 422.33 and read a little. .My biggest pet peeve is creation of code from desirenot paper.
 
peter d said:
I even used to work for an new-construction-only-EC that always put the disconnect for the DW in the 3-gang box by the sink (GFI, disposal switch, DW switch.) I thought it was the dumbest thing I was ever required to do. :rolleyes:
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That's standard practice here in Charlotte on tract homes, except it's [Sink light / disposal / dishwasher]. On the larger customs I do I always put the switch under the sink so it's not seen. It's a cleaner install. To tell you the truth all of the builders I've worked for all wanted a switch for the dw, so we just switch them all so everybody in the company stays on the same page.
 
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