Not enough space on neutral bus

[kwired]

Wow that's crazy you're right it has nothing in there about no joints in a panel. So how can inspectors all collectively enforce this if it's not in the city's NEC ammendments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possibly an authority thing, someone (as in a contractors assocation or similar group) needs to step in and keep them in check, otherwise they just continue to be on top of their power trip. Not saying they are all bad inspectors, but they are human and can be wrong without even realizing it.

You can't double up the noodles.

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded
conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual
terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

How long has this been a requirement? It used to be done all the time, and I would assume it was allowed. It wasn't until 10-15 years ago that it stopped being allowed here, but I haven't researched existence of the rule in past codes to confirm whether it was always a rule or if there was a change about the time we started getting correction notices for it.

Square D and Cutler Hammer (the brands I have most experience with) have always allowed two 14 or 12 awg conductors in the terminals of the neutral bus. (CH may have even allowed three conductors in some of them from what I recall) 408.41 would prohibit doing that with the grounded conductors but you could still land 2 EGC's there if it were the service equipment, plus they generally use same bars for EGC buses.

 

[iwire]

How long has this been a requirement?

It has been a listing violation for a very long time that was being ignored so they added the rule to the NEC.

Square D and Cutler Hammer (the brands I have most experience with) have always allowed two 14 or 12 awg conductors in the terminals of the neutral bus.

Two EGCs in the neutral bus perhaps but not two or more neutrals.

At least that is what I have read on these forums.

 

[kwired]

It has been a listing violation for a very long time that was being ignored so they added the rule to the NEC.





Two EGCs in the neutral bus perhaps but not two or more neutrals.

At least that is what I have read on these forums.

I guess what I was getting at is the instructions state they can have two conductors, further reading of instructions may indicate only one grounded conductor is permitted even though the terminal can accept two conductors.

I can see such violation of listing being ignored, not certain what to think about whether that is sufficient reason to change code - but it is what it is. I'm sure there are many other things that may seem rather minor that are listing violations that get ignored all the time, this one must have been seen as more important then many of the others to make sure it is done per the listing.

 

[iwire]

I think the reasoning is the same as the rule requiring pig-tailing of neutrals of MWBCs at devices.

 

[GoldDigger]

Identical physical bars can be used for two EGC wires per hole, but only one neutral wire per hole. The issue is not the ability of the terminal to secure two wires it is the fact that you will disconnect the other neutral when working on one. That situation could be addressed by even more handle tie requirements! :angel:
+1 to iwire's reply.

 

[david]

never mind: since the panels are close together can one circuit be move to the service panel