"Not in my town" Still Applies

Status
Not open for further replies.
MAK said:
Just wondering, has your buddy opened any dialog with the inspector making the GFCI demand? It sounded like the GC is delivering the message. Maybe the inspector could be reasonable like the few that have responded to this thread.
Click to expand...

No he has not spoken to the inspector directly about this yet, there is a lot more the GC told him about this and the inspector has not budged on this in the past.

Trust me when I say my buddy who is more then 6'-3" and more then 300 lbs is not shy about talking directly with anyone about anything. But there is no time for that and the office said just buy the breakers.
 
mpd said:
code assistance is an opinion
Click to expand...
Granted, but a very strong one. If you contact Suzanne and present your case citing code sections, describe the situation, etc. she will be an advocate for you providing you are correct. She will go to the point of contacting the inspector and setting him (her) straight

I'm not sure what the criteria is for training inspectors in other states but here in NJ each time you pull a permit (building, electrical, plumbing, etc.) there is a DCA (Dept of Community Affairs) fee associated with the permit. That fee goes toward the training of of municipal inspectors. The DCA has the responsibility of properly training the inspectors but the municipality has the responsibility of sending the inspectors for training (usually at code cycle intervals). That being said, if an inspector hasn't gone for updated training you could end up with a reaql hard nosed inspector.

I'm sure we've all had situations where we just succumbed to an inspector's wishes in the interest of allowing the job to go forward. But, in all fairness, we shouldn't let it end there. If you are 100% sure that you are correct and if there is a way to file a grievance you should do so, not only for yourself but for the trade.

Just my opinion.
 
goldstar

it is still an opinion, if the inspector does not agree with her, the contractor would have to appeal the inspectors decision, code assistance cannot over rule an inspector on a violation, and if the inspector does not complete his/her required ceu's he cannot renew his/her license and is out of a job
 
mpd said:
goldstar

it is still an opinion, if the inspector does not agree with her, the contractor would have to appeal the inspectors decision, code assistance cannot over rule an inspector on a violation, and if the inspector does not complete his/her required ceu's he cannot renew his/her license and is out of a job
Click to expand...

it is all good the inspector in this case is enforcing what he feels is a safety issue..it is all good and fine to call them on the carpet and challenge what they have requested..you would have to prove the man is intentionally doing self imposed regulations to have him fired (an intentional act utilizing his position as the tool to do it). By the time you spend fighting the whole situation the breakers are cheap price to pay for approval and on to the next job..installing them does improve safety to the general public..Not like he is asking you to commit a crime..so the hassle is up to EC have conversation with inspector and come to agreement and move on..this is not selective enforcement this is doing business and their job is safety enforcement..you can bill customer for required improvement by inspector you can not bid stuff like that so ask the inspector for a statement of requirement and let owner take it up with state..
 
People who complain about inspectors (or complaining about anything for that matter), yet are not willing to doing anything about it, are in my opinion wasting people's time.
There are three ways to deal with this situation (which is what seems to be a common situation).

1. ignore your feelings, install whatever the inspector asks for, and move on.

2. Talk to the inspector and try to resolve it in the field. If that does not come to fruition, as part of the conversation, ask him what are the ECs alternatives to his inspection process.

3. Install what he asks for, ask for documentation from the inspector. Take that documentation, pictures and send it to his boss, CCing their boss. Professionally discuss with their boss that their inspections are incorrect, time consuming and costing the consumer money...telling the supervisor that it is costing the consumer money is usually more motivating than complaining about inspector.
Have the customer send a letter as well.

LET THE INSPECTOR KNOW THAT YOU ARE UNSATISFIED WITH HIS INSPECTION AND PLAN ON TAKING IT FURTHER....
 
Originally Posted by MAK
Just wondering, has your buddy opened any dialog with the inspector making the GFCI demand? It sounded like the GC is delivering the message. Maybe the inspector could be reasonable like the few that have responded to this thread.
Click to expand...

iwire said:
No he has not spoken to the inspector directly about this yet, there is a lot more the GC told him about this and the inspector has not budged on this in the past.

Trust me when I say my buddy who is more then 6'-3" and more then 300 lbs is not shy about talking directly with anyone about anything. But there is no time for that and the office said just buy the breakers.
Click to expand...

Ok, 5 pages of some discussion, some tirades, and some information, yet no one has spoken with the inspector directly.

Has it ever entered anyone's mind that perhaps the GC mis-interpreted the inspector or did not understand the inspector?

I am not "defending" the inspector, I am simply saying if I want to know what someone said or thought, I believe it would be in my best interest to go directly to that person and ask - not rely on a some 3rd party.

You can play "he said, she said" all day long. Go to the source and ask. Ask the source directly, and ask like you have a brain and at least some manners. You might be surprised at your results.
 
MAK said:
Just wondering, has your buddy opened any dialog with the inspector making the GFCI demand? It sounded like the GC is delivering the message. Maybe the inspector could be reasonable like the few that have responded to this thread.
Click to expand...

I agree the EC needs to talk to the inspector directly. We seem to be crucifying the inspector and all we have to go on is what a GC told an EC. The GC could be confused or simply full of it. I would never take something any non-electrician told me about what an inspector required as fact until I checked it out myself. All it takes is a phone call. IMSO
 
one more question here, wait two..first one who is paying the EC the GC?? then you do what GC wants if he is paying bill..No big deal he pays you play, what he wants is not a crime..second who is the inspector the info came from the building inspector or the ectrical inspector? Some building codes are more restrictive than electrical code..remember the NEC is the minimum standard..
 
iwire said:
A friend of mine is fitting out a retail space at a large mall, he is working for a GC that has worked there for years. The GC tells my buddy the electrical inspector expects GFCI protection on all receptacles. Now my buddy knows this is not required so he presses the GC on it.

The GC explains how the inspector expects GFCI protection because of the bare concrete floor. :rolleyes:

It's indoors, it is not a wet location, there are no sinks or kitchens. The floor finish is clear epoxy on cement.

So in the interest of moving ahead my buddy ordered seven Square D GFCI breakers. :mad: There is no choice, the company could file a complaint with the State but that would take more time then we have.
Click to expand...


This is exactly why 3rd party inspectors are used in my area. You get an inspector that abuses his power or has no idea what he is doing you can tell him goodbye and never call his company again. Then you can call a company that knows what they are doing. The word eventually gets out who is a good inspector and who isn't.
 
My experience with Big City electrical inspections department: Half dozen or so inspectors, some with field knowledge, some just with education. Every now and again one loose cannon fires a round of "not in my town", but after a volley with the Chief inspector, and a look at the code and any written amendments, the situation gets resolved.

My experience with little village electrical inspections department: One inspector, who used to be a plumbing contractor or worse. "Not in my town" is resounded quite often with a verse of "because I said so".

One little Mayberry near here has a new "Barny" to work with "Andy" . Barney insists that all equipment must be installed per manufacturers instructions. Therefore, everything installed must have instruction left with it. We received a red tag, for not leaving instructions inside of the two remodel cans installed in a kitchen.
 
Contract Adds are Cool

Contract Adds are Cool

GC's lie! It's a manipulation technique many GC's employ. When the lie is below NEC requirements clearly the book saves you, when it is above NEC requirements it's an ADD.

I've "called" many GC's bluffs trying to get extra stuff for many reasons to include the "because the inspector wants it" excuse. I even see that many of the comments in here are questioning the inspector who is not even involved at this point so lets return to rule #1

GC's Lie!

Also consider that some GC's misinterpret what inspectors tell them and that misinterpretation often gets passed on to the subs. This situation usually lends itself to items being below code with the statement "the inspector has never failed us for that".

I usually ask the GC "what inspector" and tell them I will call them directly. Typically they fold under pressure and as this case would play out, if you want the GFCI you need to approve the add.
 
;)
Energize said:
Ok, 5 pages of some discussion, some tirades, and some information, yet no one has spoken with the inspector directly.

Has it ever entered anyone's mind that perhaps the GC mis-interpreted the inspector or did not understand the inspector?

I am not "defending" the inspector, I am simply saying if I want to know what someone said or thought, I believe it would be in my best interest to go directly to that person and ask - not rely on a some 3rd party.

You can play "he said, she said" all day long. Go to the source and ask. Ask the source directly, and ask like you have a brain and at least some manners. You might be surprised at your results.
Click to expand...


We'd have a lot less to bitch about if this was done before the discussion started.
 
Energize said:
Ok, 5 pages of some discussion, some tirades, and some information, yet no one has spoken with the inspector directly.

Has it ever entered anyone's mind that perhaps the GC mis-interpreted the inspector or did not understand the inspector?
Click to expand...

I know the GC, he is a straight up guy.

I also know a lot more about this then I have actually posted.

Trust me, the inspector knows there is no code rule to back it up, and he has been challenged on it before.

Regardless, the ONLY option is to comply with his wishes in order to get the CO on time.

If after that we want to pursue it we can with the only outcome being a POed inspector.

We will not get the money back for the GFCIs and we will have paid to file a complaint. :rolleyes:

It's very easy for someone to say 'You should fight this' when it is not there money or there business that is being effected.

I am sorry I even brought it up.:rolleyes:
 
iwire said:
It's very easy for someone to say 'You should fight this' when it is not there money or there business that is being effected.

I am sorry I even brought it up.
Click to expand...

You are correct, it is easy for me to say "fight em'" on this, while I sit here safely miles away at my computer.

Truth is I have been in your situation before and did exactly the same thing you are doing. In a perfect world we would all fight the inspector and they would "see the light" and change their ways. Problem is we have to deal with the real world, deadlines, costs and unfortunatly spiteful inspectors.

Chris
 
iwire said:
I am sorry I even brought it up.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I bet a whole lot of the OP's on many, many threads here feel the same way!:grin: :grin: :grin:

Lots of "cage courage" behind a computer. Real world is different.

Nascar boys would say "He's real fast, but he ain't hit nothin' yet."

We are all just temporary anyway. I was out 6 months with back surgery and somehow the company went right on along. I would like to believe they would have shut down without me, but the truth is painful sometimes.

We do our best, do what we think is right, and somehow have faith that it will all come out in the wash.....

But I still hate pressing 1 for English........
 
Energize said:
Ok, 5 pages of some discussion, some tirades, and some information, yet no one has spoken with the inspector directly.

Has it ever entered anyone's mind that perhaps the GC mis-interpreted the inspector or did not understand the inspector?QUOTE]

I've also experienced, on many occasions, GC's asking for extras under the guise of "the inspector said you need it."
Click to expand...
 
Bob I must restate what I stated earlier..all you need to do is get it in writing that the inspector is requiring the upgrade (GFCI)..Then you can bill the owner of project or GC who ever is paying..even if you can not get paid you can write it off as bad debt and you are allowed a certain amount each year on your taxes..If the inspector is requiring something that is not code then just ask him for it in writing so you can have proof for your boss..every encounter I have had like you describe the inspector just wrote on piece of paper and signed it..Our re pore with inspector is good and he would do that in heart beat nothing to worry about from use cause we no piss off inspector not smart if you are trying to make profit..
 
Energize said:
Lots of "cage courage" behind a computer. Real world is different.
Click to expand...


I think you analogy is not correct in this instance. The term "cage courage" refers to physical courage and no one suggested that he take a hockey stick to the inspectors head.

This is a simple matter of principle. The real question here is can a business owner afford to be a man of principles once you measure those same principles against the diminishing weight in the wallet?

Sitting in front of a computer it's easy to be a man of principles but looking at the bottom line it's often much harder.

I think most people would like to fight the good fight and stand up to any abuse of power. That's why most of the members wish to fight on this issue.
This is based on personal feelings and not those of a business person.

Business is compromise and taking the path of least resistance toward the goal of making money.

If there is a moral to this story it is don't let your personal feelings interfere with your business operation. :grin: :grin:
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top