NYC Code

[mstrlucky74]

Looking at a job in NYC and all the panel schedules forapartment lighting show a 15A breaker with #14 wire. I’m being told it’s acode(NYC) violation. Anyone familiar with this? Thanks.

 

[peter d]

NYC code does requires #12 minimum.

 

[infinity]

#12 minimum for branch circuits. From the 2011 NYC electrical code:

SECTION 210.19 Subsection 210.19(A)(1) – Add a new sentence at the end of the paragraph before the first Exception to read as follows: Conductors of branch circuits shall be sized to allow for a maximum voltage drop of 3 percent at the last outlet supplying light, heat or power and the maximum voltage drop allowable for feeders and branch circuit combined shall not exceed 5 percent. FPN No. 4 – Delete the FPN in its entirety.

Subsection 210.19(A)(4) – Revise the first sentence of the paragraph by replacing “14 AWG” with “12 AWG"

SECTION 210.24 Section 210.24 Table – Replace the value “14” that appears twice in the column headed 15A, and once each in the columns headed 20A and 30A in the Circuit Rating Section with the value “12.”

 

[ron]

As pointed out, it is not the 15A breaker that is the problem, just the #14AWG

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Would someone kingly provide a valid and "logical" reason for such OVER "design"?

RC

 

[iwire]

Would someone kingly provide a valid and "logical" reason for such OVER "design"?

RC

NYC is tough place, even electrons behave differently.

 

[infinity]

As pointed out, it is not the 15A breaker that is the problem, just the #14AWG

That's correct, the old NYC code didn't even allow 120 volt, 20 amp general branch and lighting circuits but still required #12 AWG conductors.

 

[mgookin]

Would someone kingly provide a valid and "logical" reason for such OVER "design"?

RC

One thing that comes to mind is old buildings with screw-in Buss fuses where people put the penny behind it so they can plug in more electric heaters.

 

[JFletcher]

One thing that comes to mind is old buildings with screw-in Buss fuses where people put the penny behind it so they can plug in more electric heaters.

and as a bonus you get radiant wall heat from the wiring as well.

When were fuseboxes last installed in as a panel? Late 50s, early 60s?

 

[iwire]

One thing that comes to mind is old buildings with screw-in Buss fuses where people put the penny behind it so they can plug in more electric heaters.

Than why not make it 10 AWG?

Those fuse come in 30s.

It's just a senseless rule likely made by someone with a Tim Taylor bigger is better personality.

 

[ron]

When were fuseboxes last installed in as a panel? Late 50s, early 60s?

It is back in style.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...ards/quik-spectm_coordinationpanelboard1.html

The concept is that it is easier to show selectivity for compliance with 700 loads.

 

[iwire]

It is back in style.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...ards/quik-spectm_coordinationpanelboard1.html

We have been installing those in some jobs.

 

[infinity]

Than why not make it 10 AWG?

Those fuse come in 30s.

It's just a senseless rule likely made by someone with a Tim Taylor bigger is better personality.

I don't see this any different than the NEC forcing us to use a #12 conductor at 20 amps when it's 75°C ampacity is 25 amps.

 

[iwire]

I don't see this any different than the NEC forcing us to use a #12 conductor at 20 amps when it's 75°C ampacity is 25 amps.

You mean other than prohibiting a wire size that works fine everywhere else?

It's dumb and not defendable

 

[qcroanoke]

I don't see this any different than the NEC forcing us to use a #12 conductor at 20 amps when it's 75°C ampacity is 25 amps.

Because they can?

 

[peter d]

I remember reading on this forum that a branch circuit for a fire alarm panel in NYC must be in 3/4" RMC, #10 XHHW conductors and terminate on a fused disconnect.

 

[JFletcher]

I remember reading on this forum that a branch circuit for a fire alarm panel in NYC must be in 3/4" RMC, #10 XHHW conductors and terminate on a fused disconnect.

RI maybe? Huge nightclub fires that kill a hundred people tend to make one pucker up and over-engineer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire

even tho setting off fireworks indoors has zip to do with the FA system, or exits.

 

[JFletcher]

We have been installing those in some jobs.

Everything old is new again. Not holding my breath for new fuse panels in residential.

 

[jumper]

I remember reading on this forum that a branch circuit for a fire alarm panel in NYC must be in 3/4" RMC, #10 XHHW conductors and terminate on a fused disconnect.

I see the #10 size and fused disco/cut out, but not XHHW only or 3/4" RMC specified.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/rules/1_RCNY_4000-06_090208.pdf

 

[infinity]

You mean other than prohibiting a wire size that works fine everywhere else?

It's dumb and not defendable

That pretty much sums it up. :slaphead: