Odd multiwire circuit

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Re: Odd multiwire circuit

George I think you are mistaken.

A 24" section of wall with a door on each side is 'one wall space'. The wall space on the other side of each of the doors are two more 'wall spaces'

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
Click to expand...
(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
"Any wall space" is singular.

You have to treat each wall space as a new starting point just as we always thought.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

In determining if it is a wall space, yes, you must consider each individual wall space to see if it qualifies.

Then you must see if every point along the floor line of that wall space is within 6' of a receptacle.

Two procedures, they're not the same.

I'm gonna finish this beer and take a break. :D
(You wouldn't believe what an ordeal it was cleaning up that PM to be halfway legible (quotes and such)! :D )
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by iwire:
George I think you are mistaken.

A 24" section of wall with a door on each side is 'one wall space'. The wall space on the other side of each of the doors are two more 'wall spaces'

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
Click to expand...
(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
"Any wall space" is singular.

You have to treat each wall space as a new starting point just as we always thought.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the code does not state that the receptacle must be within that wall space, does it? I believe that would have been the intent, but it is not stated so.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Read the section as it is written and you will see the words ?in any wall space?

(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
Just what is a wall space?

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
Click to expand...
This will include those spaces described in
this post.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

All I'm going to say is, I'm glad I only deal with chapter 5 installations, they're easy. :D

Roger
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by j_erickson:
Yes, but the code does not state that the receptacle must be within that wall space, does it? I believe that would have been the intent, but it is not stated so.
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I believe it does with this...

in any wall space
Click to expand...
as we can not go past the opening because of this..

unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
Click to expand...
I think Mike (JWelectric) described it well. :cool:
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by roger:
All I'm going to say is, I'm glad I only deal with chapter 5 installations, they're easy. :D

Roger
Click to expand...
Roger not more than few minutes ago I was thinking I am glad I do not work in dwelling units anymore. :D

The locations I work have very few required anything. :p
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by j_erickson:
Yes, but the code does not state that the receptacle must be within that wall space, does it? I believe that would have been the intent, but it is not stated so.
Click to expand...
I believe it does with this...

in any wall space
Click to expand...
as we can not go past the opening because of this..

unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
Click to expand...
I think Mike (JWelectric) described it well. :cool:
Click to expand...
I still think that all of those remarks are referring to the definition of the wall space. I don't read a requirement that states that the receptacle must be in the wall space. It's implied, especially by specifying that a floor receptacle be within 18" of the wall.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by jwelectric:
[QB] Read the section as it is written and you will see the words ?in any wall space?

(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
Just what is a wall space?
Click to expand...
This does not say that the receptacle must be located within the wall space. It just says that the "point" from which you are measuring is in the wallspace.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by j_erickson:
This does not say that the receptacle must be located within the wall space.
Click to expand...
No, but...

measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space
Click to expand...
....the measurement itself is limited to one particular 'wall space'. The measurement can not extend into another 'wall space'.

That being the case an outlet must be on each wall space.

[ November 20, 2005, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by j_erickson:
[
(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
This does not say that the receptacle must be located within the wall space. It just says that the "point" from which you are measuring is in the wallspace.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. Read it again and you will see where it makes that statement.

Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.

This clearly makes the statement that receptacle shall be installed so no point is more than six feet from it in that wall space. This encompasses any and all wall spaces that are unbroken by doors, fireplaces and similar things.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by j_erickson:
This does not say that the receptacle must be located within the wall space.
Click to expand...
No, but...

measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space
Click to expand...
....the measurement itself is limited to one particular 'wall space'. The measurement can not extend into another 'wall space'.

That being the case an outlet must be on each wall space.
Click to expand...
OK, now I agree with that. I was reading it as "in any wallspace" to be referring to the point. It is really referring to the measurement.

Sorry George. :(
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by jwelectric:
Originally posted by j_erickson:
[
(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...
This does not say that the receptacle must be located within the wall space. It just says that the "point" from which you are measuring is in the wallspace.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. Read it again and you will see where it makes that statement.

Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.

This clearly makes the statement that receptacle shall be installed so no point is more than six feet from it in that wall space. This encompasses any and all wall spaces that are unbroken by doors, fireplaces and similar things.
Click to expand...
You're right, thanks. As you said, I wasn't reading it properly.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

As I read it, you can't install a receptacle in a wall space at all. A wall space is a one-dimensional fictional creature that sits in the shoe of a wall, and is a basis for measurements and requirements.

A receptacle cannot exist in a wall space, because it is a billionth of an inch high by a billionth of an inch deep. It is like the plane of the end-zone of a football field. Any "point in that wall space" is a fraction of a billionth of an inch, cubed.

If people wish to see the wall space as the framed wall, it's understandable. But we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by georgestolz:
A receptacle cannot exist in a wall space, because it is a billionth of an inch high by a billionth of an inch deep. It is like the plane of the end-zone of a football field. Any "point in that wall space" is a fraction of a billionth of an inch, cubed.
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George come on....share what your smoking today.

I think you are getting a bit to literal here.

It is that billionth of an inch high by a billionth of an inch deep space that the 6' measurement is restricted to. That billionth of an inch high by a billionth of an inch deep space can not continue through openings.

Somewhere along that billionth of an inch high by a billionth of an inch deep space that does not pass by an opening must be a receptacle.

No one said it can not be a surface receptacle. ;)
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

Originally posted by iwire:
George come on....share what your smoking today.
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Only if you ask nice. :D

Somewhere along that billionth of an inch high by a billionth of an inch deep space that does not pass by an opening must be a receptacle.
Click to expand...
No, everywhere along that billionth of an inch space must be within 6' of a receptacle; a receptacle that can't exist in that space until the technology improves. :D
 
Re: Odd multiwire circuit

BIG HUG EVERYBODY, I was beginning to wonder when we all were going to realize that someone just may explain this so perfectly as it was in the end, now I can tell my apprentice to read this thread. Maybe now he'll see what we sparktricians do for fun on Sundays. I guess now I see that when the 1st person says "I agree with Charlie" I should just see that I need not read on anymore, because again, Charlie has shown us his extensive knowledge of the code and his uncanny way of correctly interpreting the Code
 
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