Oh, we forgot to mention the disposal??

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As many would have here - i would have chucked 12/3 in for 'whatever' under the sink. Would have seen that from a mile out....

I go through this all the freaking time....
"oh you don't want (this or that)?' - I just chuck it in.....

Then (where you are now) they say, 'could we get this, or it was omitted....' "SURE YOU CAN!!!!"

THEN I RAPE THEM ON THE CHANGE TO INSTALL THE BREAKER AND OTHER OUTLET!!!!

BUT HERES THE CATCH - you take the circuit to some other J-box first - some outlet on the way from the panel to wherever.... And leave the extra circuit capped there.
 
14/3 was run under the sink. It then branched out to a trash compactor.

There were 3 other 14/3's run to other appliances as well. Warming drawer/icemaker undrcounter fridge/downdraft refrigerator/micro

As much as some of you delight in blaming me for the problem. I asked for appliance specs, went over the kitchen with the GC and the HO, I wired for what I was told was going in. It really is that simple.

In some threads you guys are all about doing only what people are paying for, yet here many of you would just throw in a free circuit. Shoud I have wired a 50 amp range receptacle too, just in case? I don't get it.

The bottom line, reality in place of code, as I said the nameplates are way overinflated. There is no issue woth these two appliances sharinga 15 amp branch ciruit and that is how it's staying.

As for the subpanel. I guess the inspector isn't the only one wondering why the cable was so big. :wink:
 
electricmanscott said:
In some threads you guys are all about doing only what people are paying for, yet here many of you would just throw in a free circuit. Shoud I have wired a 50 amp range receptacle too, just in case? I don't get it.
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You did give it to them for free ,... they added to the scope of the job and you committed a code violation because it was easier and free to the customer ...Not the end of the world ... Would you use the 50 amp hot tub circuit to also feed the range???
 
electricmanscott said:
14/3 was run under the sink. It then branched out to a trash compactor.

There were 3 other 14/3's run to other appliances as well. Warming drawer/icemaker undrcounter fridge/downdraft refrigerator/micro

As much as some of you delight in blaming me for the problem. I asked for appliance specs, went over the kitchen with the GC and the HO, I wired for what I was told was going in. It really is that simple.

In some threads you guys are all about doing only what people are paying for, yet here many of you would just throw in a free circuit. Shoud I have wired a 50 amp range receptacle too, just in case? I don't get it.

The bottom line, reality in place of code, as I said the nameplates are way overinflated. There is no issue woth these two appliances sharinga 15 amp branch ciruit and that is how it's staying.

As for the subpanel. I guess the inspector isn't the only one wondering why the cable was so big. :wink:
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I agree. It wasn't on the prints or spec's, it's not your problem. It isn't code to install a circuit for the disposal that isn't required. Disposals are nice to have. You should have to install a "free" circuit just because someone in the future may need it.

Tell them how much it will cost to install a new circuit, let them decide.

If they plug it in on the existing circuit, so be it. YOU did nothing wrong.
 
My wife decided we are building a new home. A Wardcraft, stick built in a factory and moved to location, was her choice. Not many decisions I got to make but one of them was no disposal because of the septic system. Looking at the final plans I notice a switch for a disposal. I had been overuled by a higher authority. So how do things like no disposal being mentioned happen? Maybe we just aren't supposed to know.
 
ptonsparky said:
So how do things like no disposal being mentioned happen? Maybe we just aren't supposed to know.
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It happens when an electrician gets an appliance list and doesn't specially inquire about missing items he'd normally expect to find in a kitchen in a similar price bracket. Asking for an appliance list or a layout is one thing, but if there's a missing disposal, the prudent man would say something like, "I notice there's no disposal on this list. That's probably an oversight, right? I need to wire for one now, even if you're undecided, because it gets pretty expensive to wire for one after the fact."
 
mdshunk said:
It happens when an electrician gets an appliance list and doesn't specially inquire about missing items he'd normally expect to find in a kitchen in a similar price bracket. Asking for an appliance list or a layout is one thing, but if there's a missing disposal, the prudent man would say something like, "I notice there's no disposal on this list. That's probably an oversight, right? I need to wire for one now, even if you're undecided, because it gets pretty expensive to wire for one after the fact."
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How is it being perfect?

It must not be that fun because you always seem to be in a sour mood.:D
 
cadpoint said:
Frankly, MO, (And I've read enough here) (( not that it qualifies me)) its no different than any other device that the owner missed in the design of their house, A fan, A three conductor circuit for the Fan, Dimmers on the back lite wall, or Spot Lights in the (missed) "Exact" place.
Come on its endless....
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AND if we ASSUME all this in our bid, who ends up getting the job?
 
mdshunk said:
Asking for an appliance list or a layout is one thing, but if there's a missing disposal, the prudent man would say something like, "I notice there's no disposal on this list. That's probably an oversight, right? I need to wire for one now, even if you're undecided, because it gets pretty expensive to wire for one after the fact."
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It kind of sounds like Scott already said that to the HO and was shot down. :roll:
 
iwire said:
How is it being perfect?

It must not be that fun because you always seem to be in a sour mood.:D
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Has nothing to do with being perfect. The man asked how this happens, and I explained how it happens much of the time, and I further suggested a script to keep it from happening as much in the future. I'm not in the perfection business. I'm in the solutions business, and this is one problem that has a solution (for the most part)- if it is implemented as suggested.
 
mdshunk said:
Has nothing to do with being perfect. The man asked how this happens, and I explained how it happens much of the time, and I further suggested a script to keep it from happening as much in the future. I'm not in the perfection business. I'm in the solutions business, and this is one problem that has a solution (for the most part)- if it is implemented as suggested.
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I am with Marc on this one. You need to be proactive in your business. It adds to your reputation of being thorough and professional providing you already have that kind of reputation.
 
I have learned early when doing anything other than track homes to try and have owner of the house meet me early the first morning of the job. Take an hour and do your layout with them. You then end up with code compliant but also owner happy job. While it might show the receptacle in the middle of a wall to meet spacing that just might be where the bed goes or dresser. Most rather pay for an extra receptacle than have messed up install. Anything you don't see that is normal you should ask. In kitchen ask all the normal stuff like micro, dw, gd, what side they want switch for gd.,under cab. lights..Also lay out the recess cans (often trusses are in the way ). Great time to suggest things like extra dedicated outlet in garage for the freezer. Will there be a pool or spa added. One hour now saves arguments at trim time and often adds $$$$$$$$$$$. And if they add or change nothing then they atleast know you care enough to ask. Houses are fun to wire if nothing gets missed. Customers usually have no idea how to read a print or spec sheet. If it doesn't show decora switches or dimmers, suggest it. And never forget the big question about color of devices.

Now if all the above was done and then along comes a GD then charge what ever it takes to fix.
 
electricmanscott said:
Last day on a new house job just finishing up kitchen details. I see a garbage disposal and I know I didn't wire for it. Batch feed, no switch needed that's a good start.

Asked for appliance list and specs at rough and no disposal included.

Under sink I have duplex for dishwasher on 15 amp circuit.

Disposal name plate says 10.2 amps. DW says max 9 amps.

There is absolutley no new circuit going in woth out major holes, patching and repainting.

What would you do??
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Replace the duplex with a 'dual simplex' to minimize cut-and-patch? Are those still around?
 
ivsenroute said:
I am with Marc on this one. You need to be proactive in your business. It adds to your reputation of being thorough and professional providing you already have that kind of reputation.
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He did ask the customer about it.

But as always we will not let facts cloud a good discussion.:D
 
iwire said:
He did ask the customer about it.

But as always we will not let facts cloud a good discussion.:D
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I understand that but I think the point that Marc is making is that just asking a general question will get a general response.

Something like a disposal is more than common and rather than ask a general question about appliances, ask more detailed questions about specific items and be more proactive which can be lucrative.

Since he did ask, this is a non-issue because it is obviously going to be a change order and he will make more money.

He did cover himself by asking the general question but this could have been avoided if he would have been more specific and proactive about other items in the house.

I always ask:

Do you plan on having ceiling fans in the future?
That is a tall foyer, would you consider a winch for lowering the fixture?
Are you ever planning on putting in a garbage disposal?
Are there any areas that you want to have extra receptacles?
The plans only show one receptacle in the basement. Want more?

And other questions depending on the situation, especially phone and cable.

IMHO of course.
 
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