Oh, we forgot to mention the disposal??

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aftershock said:
We wire all recep circuits with #12 this includes kitchen receps. Anything other than lighting is in #12.
I do alot of kitchen remodels. I always ask questions and push for tech specs on appliances as well as cabinet specs.
Things that are common in kitchens are disposals , so if this is something left out, I will ask about it and wire fore it regardless.
I always try and anticipate the homeowner, saves me a headache at the end.
Sometimes you got to play the designer as well as the electrical installer.
For me,, I know my GC's personaly and have done work for them on the side. They look to me for information and trust my judgement when I make a call for something.
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Thats the way I do my jobs also, receptacle circuits all are #12, lighting and smoke detectors are #14, 90% of my business is word of mouth so I like to keep my customers happy to keep the good word spreading. Most of my houses I do are custom so that also helps.:D
 
e57 said:
As many would have here - i would have chucked 12/3 in for 'whatever' under the sink. Would have seen that from a mile out....

I go through this all the freaking time....
"oh you don't want (this or that)?' - I just chuck it in.....

Then (where you are now) they say, 'could we get this, or it was omitted....' "SURE YOU CAN!!!!"

THEN I RAPE THEM ON THE CHANGE TO INSTALL THE BREAKER AND OTHER OUTLET!!!!

BUT HERES THE CATCH - you take the circuit to some other J-box first - some outlet on the way from the panel to wherever.... And leave the extra circuit capped there.
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Bad Karma man.......Bad Karma
 
480sparky said:
I often do the same thing. If pulling two circuits from a 3-phase panel, I often pull a full boat and leave a spare. It often pays for itself somewhere down the line.
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Right and then you charge them for an additional circuit when they need that disposal circuit. Nothing wrong with that.
My point was this shouldn't be used as a chance to stick it to the customer.
Be fair.
 
PCN said:
Right and then you charge them for an additional circuit when they need that disposal circuit. Nothing wrong with that.
My point was this shouldn't be used as a chance to stick it to the customer.
Be fair.
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Um... spoken like an employee, eh? Why should my forethought and risk taking by installing a spare at my cost somehow specially reward the customer's lack of planning? They get charged full fare, even if I did make it easy on myself with pre plannign for these sorts of changes. Fair is whatever the customer and I agree is fair. Fair has nothing to do with what any other third party might or might not think is fair.
 
True story:

One of the first houses I ever wired on my own did not have a single ceiling light in it. All bath fans were mounted in the walls and vented down & out through the basement. HO was 'terrified' of the heat loss from ceiling lights and such. Nothing but floor & table lamps on switched receps.

In any event, I still mounted some 8b boxes on 2x4s, flush with the bottom of the ceiling joists, and made notes of the measurements on where those boxes were. I ran 14/3 from them to switch boxes, and dead-ended them there. There was no attic in this home, as the sloped ceiling joists were also the rafters for the roof. Todl the drywallers to ignore them, and cover them up.

Three years after finishing, I get a call from her. She wants ceiling fans installed. I go out, and she tells me she's had three other electicians look at the job. One quoted her $600, another $800, and the other said it couldn't be done. The first two also said she would need to hire someone to patch & repaint the walls as they were going to have to tear holes in the drywall.

I asked if she had the fans already, which she did and they were in the garage. I told her I could have them up and running that afternoon. She said she wasn't prepared to install them today because she would need to empty the rooms out, cover the hardwood floors, and arrange for a drywaller and a painter to come patch the holes she was sure I was going to make.

I told her there would be no holes, and the fans would still be up and running by lunch time. She was skeptic, but agreed. I got my measurements out, dug out the boxes, installed the fans & swtiches, and swept up. Whole job took two hours.

She was absolutely amazed I only charged her $500, and she had no repair work to do.

Did I 'rape' the customer?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I would.. So why did you charge $500
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1. To cover the time & material I spent to install the material three years prior. That was a gamble on my part. It's time to make it pay off.

2. I got the job completely done in two hours. The other guys were going to take a couple days and

3. the other guys were going to leave holes in the walls for the HO to fix.

I don't think I 'raped' her.... I think she got a helluva good deal.
 
480sparky said:
1. To cover the time & material I spent to install the material three years prior. That was a gamble on my part. It's time to make it pay off.

2. I got the job completely done in two hours. The other guys were going to take a couple days and

3. the other guys were going to leave holes in the walls for the HO to fix.

I don't think I 'raped' her.... I think she got a helluva good deal.
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I had assumed you got paid for the prior work.
 
mdshunk said:
Um... spoken like an employee, eh? Why should my forethought and risk taking by installing a spare at my cost somehow specially reward the customer's lack of planning? They get charged full fare, even if I did make it easy on myself with pre plannign for these sorts of changes. Fair is whatever the customer and I agree is fair. Fair has nothing to do with what any other third party might or might not think is fair.
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Actually, spoken like a business owner of 18 years.

Full fare is fair, I agree with you 100% :smile:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I had assumed you got paid for the prior work.
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For what I bid the job for, yes. But installing the extra boxes & 14/3, no. it was a gamble on my part to do that, and it paid off, and paid off very well. In essence, I did a remodel job with the advantage of having the job open during rough-in.

The same scenario plays out every day when someone decides to finish their basement. They usually want a bathroom down there. Did anyone take the time to rough in the plumbing for it before the slab was poured?
 
PCN said:
Bad Karma man.......Bad Karma
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No - I do not see it that way... The way I see it, I have done due diligence to provide an option for them that I know they MAY come to use, and at my own risk. And I do so sans payment for it - when they want it - they pay for it. I'm not just going to charge for the breaker and outlet at that point, I'll charge for the whole circuit as if I roughed it in on T&M service rates, not rough in rates from the contract with the GC. As I did on my/companies dime - but what I have saved them at that point is several thousands in finish repair due to their own fault - and they should be grateful I had the foresight to do so. And for that - they PAY full rate! The Karma in this case is reversed - I saved them from their own stupidity.

e.g. I did a restaurant a while back where the dope owner insisted he wanted only a GP circuit around a kitchen area. I argued and educated him the best I could. But decided to HR the outlets back to a J-box under the panel. Sure a few extra bucks out on my side - the day it all went out, and needed a few new circuits - he got them without tearing up concrete floors. And he paid emergency rates for that - still a pittance in comparison.
 
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