OK to switch and plug before paint?

[jimmyglen]

My boss and I had a little difference of opinion on this subject.
I have a GC pushing and pushing to stay ahead on a job. He wanted the job deviced out before the painters came in. We were not going to energize the circuits just switch and plug. I planned to make off the devices with masking tape.

My boss said NO WAY! He stated he could not do that. I couldnt find anything in the code to prevent doing this.

I know you guys will know.
Thanks in advance

Jim
St.Louis MO

 

[jimwalker]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

Other than your wasting time go for it.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

I occasionally (and regrettably) am put in a position where I do this for people. There's nothing in the code that prevents a person from screwing up all your best work with paint. I absolutely hate to do it, but sometimes I do. On those occasions, I don't put my advertising sticker on the panel if the devices got messed up (or potentially will be). There are times that I also just set the devices and count up and leave the cover plates for the painter to put on. Sometimes the job is falling behind, and you do what you gotta do. I suspect that an inspector might be able to make a "workmanship" argurment if the devices were painted on, but that might be a little stretch.

 

[physis]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

This has nothing to do with code.

Right now I'm not very happy with pushy general contractors.

This is very simple. Install before paint and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

When you get the phone call to go deal with whatever you'll be blamed for+, just start the change order right there while you're on the phone with him.

If you're gonna go tape off something that isn't your responsibilty, when you're finished, I have some things for you to do too.

The GC wants to work you guys and your boss knows it. Listen to him for a minute.

 

[joebell]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

I don't beleive this is against the code in any way. I have also had to do this a bunch of times but I usually work it out with the GC that he masks the devices with that wide blue painters tape. Never had aproblem yet with paint on the devices ( knock on wood)

 

[allenwayne]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

We have a builder that gets us in right after paint and we leave the cover plates for someone else to install,hasn`t been a problem and we are through almost 100 townhomes doing this I remember doing work in NYC where we were doing loft conversions.All Bx and inspected without drywall for power on.We would rough trim and power up circuits leave the cover plates and never go back Wish it was that easy now :roll:

 

[jimwalker]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

Just exsplain to him that there will be an extra charge.In the time it took to mask it you could have put the cover on.Now you need to make extra trip,remove tape,install covers.Time is money

 

[pierre]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.
(A) Faceplates. Faceplates provided for snap switches mounted in boxes and other enclosures shall be installed so as to completely cover the opening and, where the switch is flush mounted, seat against the finished surface.


406.5 Receptacle Faceplates (Cover Plates). Receptacle faceplates shall be installed so as to completely cover the opening and seat against the mounting surface.

If the finished surface is unpainted sheetrock so be it.
I do not see how this violates the NEC.

The contracting problem is a whole other situation... sometimes you win-sometimes you don't

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

I see no problem with doing this. A problem I ran into once was this. I plugged and switched a home once and then the homeowner decided that she wanted grafix decor switches instead of the regular old lutrons. Well, the homebuilder insisted that I plug and switch before they painted. I had to switch out 170 devices. Lowes would not take back painted on devices. I back charged the homebuilder for 600 bux to fix the problem. From then on out, he had a change of heart on when to plug and switch.

 

[physis]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

By Pierre:

sometimes you win-sometimes you don't

One way to make sure you don't is to invite general contractors to treat you like a piece of carpet.

 

[chicar]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

I am now currently working on a job to where we installed the devices after the primer and first coat. The lighting was installed after the final coat.
My forman asked me to tape the devices for paint protection. I felt it was the painters responsibility, but I am paid by the hour.
After the final coat on walls,then I shall remove the tape and install the covers. 1st priority is to "get the job done". Have the G.C. take responsibility for the work when done.

 

[physis]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

Every deal can be different. In your case the people you work for have an arrangement to deal with this. In the original post the situation is the opposite.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

It must be nicer for the general contractor to have us poking around hunting "buried" boxes before the walls are painted, but that's a whole different topic!!

[ May 11, 2005, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]

 

[allenwayne]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

To me it is simple,trim out and install the cover plate or not I get paid to do a job once if GC wants to install devices then the cover plates he can either pay us to return or install them himself.This also includes required gfci stickers.Not sure how others feel but to me if I trim a job and the plates are removed it is not my job to reinstall them,the painters wall papers or tile guys get that job!! pay me to come back sure but for me to redo what I have already done COME ON

 

[physis]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

Speaking of the plates Allen, I do have an issue with that.

It reflects on me if a GC uses a minimum wage 14 year old worker to install plates.

That is where the difference is made between unacceptable and superior work. In terms of appearance.

 

[drg]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

Maybe some times we have to keep a open mind on things ........
Member 20644 works for a business that does a lots of homes each year and if there is a margin for profit by having "other people" install their faceplates thats probaly normal for his area.

Some others have stated that they don't trench for cost reasons and that is acceptable also and would only seem normal for their area .

I guess you have to consider the "areas" and the voulume of work that some of these bigger places do, "MAYBE" even the guys that install the thousands upon thousands of faceplates are pretty good at what they do......

Every area of the country is different what seem odd could very well be normal somewheres else.

 

[paul]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

If you go that way, I'd make damned sure the GC signs off that you're not responsible for them once installed. Otherwise they may ding you on the walk-through.

Usually recepts are the last thing I trim out on a job. It never fails that the other trades pull their cords out with a "yank" from an angle and bust out the ground. Then I'm stuck replacing the recept and my cost. Now, I just don't give them the recepts until the last thing....period.

However, I don't work on resi jobs where I have the same GC over and over. If you've got a good relastionship with him/her, then it's a different story.

 

[bigjohn67]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

Bottom line is that the electrician is one of the last trades on a job. We wait for no one. When the sheetrock goes up and the floaters/Painters fall behind, that is their problem..... We start trimming out.

If the contractor cant hold his floater/painter to a schedule, that's his problem. We are trimming out.

If they ask us to hold off, we ask for it in writing and the to state the cause for delay.

It's not our problem if the painting contractor cant man the job when we have a completion date with damages ($$$$) if we do not finish on time.
It's all in your contract, read it well.
Shame on the GC and Painter..... Good thing they know how to "cut in" around fixtures and outlets.

 

[mc5w]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

In Ohio and Pennsylvania every general contractor who builds new houses says that they can get a house wired for 1/4 of what a reputable estimating book says that the work should cost. Therefore, I do not have to worry about this issue. General contractors also say that a 2 man crew can wire a 4 bedroom house in a day. In other words, the people who got there first do not want any help.

All of my buddies who are electricians tell me that the only time they wire new houses is when they wired their own house or when a homeowner is acting as his own general contractor.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: OK to switch and plug before paint?

If you're fishing for a violation, cite 110.12(C) and state that there is no guarantee that the innards of the receptacles are not going to be compromised by paint.

Interesting thread. I can't believe a GC would push his sparkies in before the painters. That is nuts.

My vote: If he's that stupid, why not do it?