Old school pool - no bondage

M

Moosifer

Member
Location
Panama City Beach, FL
1960's Motel pool.
Pump / pool building, pool panel & pool across parking lot.
Pool panel fed with 10/2 from across the parking lot NO NEUTRAL, 2 hots and ground.
No pool lights.
Has metal ladders for pool access.
No bonding loop.
Concrete pool.

Ground in feed seems compromised. They called and said the 240v pump works but not the 120v lights on the patio. I told my guys to go cut the power so it can't be reconnected easily.

How do I make this safe? It will have its own meter soon (1 month+ waiting on power company), but still no bonding loop. Might check for rebar with big hammer in the future if required. Nothing visible.

How do I make it safe right now?

My plan until there is a new service.
1 - drive a ground rod
2 - run ground wire to pool panel and pump from ground rod
3 - swap pool pump breaker to GFCI
4 - repair or replace pool panel feed from motel and ensure it has a ground wire back to feeding panel.
5 - if replacing wire add a ground bar and neutral wire from feeding panel in motel?

Appreciate any help. I hate pool work.
 
Moosifer said:
My plan until there is a new service.
1 - drive a ground rod
2 - run ground wire to pool panel and pump from ground rod
3 - swap pool pump breaker to GFCI
4 - repair or replace pool panel feed from motel and ensure it has a ground wire back to feeding panel.
5 - if replacing wire add a ground bar and neutral wire from feeding panel in motel?
Click to expand...
1. Ground rod will do nothing to make the pool safer
2. Bonding pump to ground rod will do nothing to make the pool safer
3. Would only add minimal safety addition only if the pump is minimally faulting to ground, GFCI would then trip and shut it down.
4. A ground wire back to panel would only be minimally helpful in that if there is a fault it would provide a path to trip a breaker.
5. Again an addition of grounding is minimal help.
Only safety factor would be to create a proper Equipotential Bonding in addition to locate and repair voltage source. Proper EP Bonding would make the pool safe even in the event of larger voltage introduction into the pool area. Review of article 680 of the NEC would be appropriate.

Best recommendation, Turn a report to the local AHJ to have to pool shut down until repairs can be made. Anything short of total stop use could have life threatening consequences.
 
HUmmmm... a motel with no bondage ??? :)
My advise, from a liability standpoint, is RUN.
adding a ground rod on a branch circuit is not required and would likely add no safety.
You obviously need a good equipment ground and the pump should be GFCI protected.
The real bear is the lack of an equipotential bond. Look for a bond at the pump and perform some continuity checks to the ;ladders. Unless you see proof of a bond I wouldn;'t touch a commercial pool without inspection and and an engineer involved. At a minimum you are looking at saw cuts and jackhammers
 
Moosifer said:
1960's Motel pool.
Pump / pool building, pool panel & pool across parking lot.
Pool panel fed with 10/2 from across the parking lot NO NEUTRAL, 2 hots and ground.
No pool lights.
Has metal ladders for pool access.
No bonding loop.
Concrete pool.

Ground in feed seems compromised. They called and said the 240v pump works but not the 120v lights on the patio. I told my guys to go cut the power so it can't be reconnected easily.

How do I make this safe? It will have its own meter soon (1 month+ waiting on power company), but still no bonding loop. Might check for rebar with big hammer in the future if required. Nothing visible.

How do I make it safe right now?

My plan until there is a new service.
1 - drive a ground rod
2 - run ground wire to pool panel and pump from ground rod
3 - swap pool pump breaker to GFCI
4 - repair or replace pool panel feed from motel and ensure it has a ground wire back to feeding panel.
5 - if replacing wire add a ground bar and neutral wire from feeding panel in motel?

Appreciate any help. I hate pool work.
Click to expand...
What do you think that would accomplish?
Without the required perimeter bonding this pool is not safe and should not be used.
I would not touch this project for a million dollars!
 
augie47 said:
HUmmmm... a motel with no bondage ??? :)
My advise, from a liability standpoint, is RUN.
adding a ground rod on a branch circuit is not required and would likely add no safety.
You obviously need a good equipment ground and the pump should be GFCI protected.
The real bear is the lack of an equipotential bond. Look for a bond at the pump and perform some continuity checks to the ;ladders. Unless you see proof of a bond I wouldn;'t touch a commercial pool without inspection and and an engineer involved. At a minimum you are looking at saw cuts and jackhammers
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks.
 
Write a report stating it must be brought up to current codes to be safe. You were the last professional on the job.

Yup. It means concrete saws and jackhammers.

If they don't want to do what you recommend, you at least have a paper trail with your observations and recommendations.

I had similar situation about 6 years ago on an indoor pool at a resort. They wanted to just "get it going". I wrote a report and submitted my findings and recommendations. I got crickets.

The electrical issues were only a part of the disaster. The mechanicals were beyond repair as well as the structure itself.

I did benefit as I snapped pics that I use for classes I teach in my industry. Most responses are, ''Woah":D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top