Old school pool - no bondage

None of that addresses the neutral to earth voltage that the bonding is designed to control.
Not to sound snarky but if its an existing installation built to the code in effect at the time does the NEC (or any adopted code) require a performance test when service work happens like replacing a feeder, breaker or pump?
Is there a NETA or IEC standard for performing such a test?
 
Not to sound snarky but if its an existing installation built to the code in effect at the time does the NEC (or any adopted code) require a performance test when service work happens like replacing a feeder, breaker or pump?
Is there a NETA or IEC standard for performing such a test?
No such requirement...just a job I would never do no matter how much they paid me.
 
Not to sound snarky but if its an existing installation built to the code in effect at the time does the NEC (or any adopted code) require a performance test when service work happens like replacing a feeder, breaker or pump?
Is there a NETA or IEC standard for performing such a test?
No such requirement...just a job I would never do no matter how much they paid me.
I think some municipalities have it in the building code for commercial or public pools that an annual inspection and testing be done Including bonding tests. Not sure if it is state wide. Also seen insurance require it. An inspection agency near me told me they have gotten requests to do this inspection but they won't do it for liability reasons as well as the cost of the equipment to do the grounding and EP bond testing for all their inspectors.
 
I think some municipalities have it in the building code for commercial or public pools that an annual inspection and testing be done Including bonding tests. Not sure if it is state wide. Also seen insurance require it. An inspection agency near me told me they have gotten requests to do this inspection but they won't do it for liability reasons as well as the cost of the equipment to do the grounding and EP bond testing for all their inspectors.
NJ requires bond certification every 5 years on public pools. I would imagine Florida has a similar requirement.
 
No such requirement...just a job I would never do no matter how much they paid me.
Amen. One concept that gets lost sometimes is that a customer calls an electrician to help them with their problem - the customer's problem. It doesn't become the electrician's problem until he touches it. They may try to twist your arm to get you to help, but I don't recall reading any books about the fortunes made from crappy fixes on 60-year-old motels. You don't owe them anything, and frankly, I wouldn't charge them anything for the initial consultation just to keep them off the books.
 
NJ requires bond certification every 5 years on public pools. I would imagine Florida has a similar requirement.
Interesting I found the NJ requirement but not anything for Florida other than public pools are regulated by the health department.
Nothing in the NJ law about any particular NETA or IEEE standard for performance testing pool bonding though I did find this (a bit dated) on the IEEE website:

I imagine an EC could stipulate the owner hire a testing firm to test the pool bonding before putting it into service again, but I am now interested as to how others do it, I suppose a miliohm meter with a resolution to 0.1mΩ.
 
NJ will have the health department involved regarding bonding certification as it's part of the safety aspect of the pool. I believe the emergency shut off must be verified prior to opening as well.
Seasonal public pools must alert the health department when they plan to open for the season. Generally, 30 days prior or more keeps in harmony with the health department. :cool:
Independent labs must be hired by the facility and provide reports of testing and any reports of elevated E.coli levels to the health department.

I'm sure other states have a similar protocol.
 
Interesting I found the NJ requirement but not anything for Florida other than public pools are regulated by the health department.
Nothing in the NJ law about any particular NETA or IEEE standard for performance testing pool bonding though I did find this (a bit dated) on the IEEE website:

I imagine an EC could stipulate the owner hire a testing firm to test the pool bonding before putting it into service again, but I am now interested as to how others do it, I suppose a miliohm meter with a resolution to 0.1mΩ.
NJAC 5:23-2.18(C)
 
NJAC 5:23-2.18(C)
Thanks but it still does not specify a particular test
(c) The construction official may accept tests and test reports of the Department and other government agencies, as well as signed statements and supporting inspection and test reports filed by qualified licensed professionals or approved agencies or firms.

I am interested if any jurisdictions have something specific like this:
A bonding test shall be performed from the pool equipment electrical panel to all of the metallic components of the pool including but not limited to the circulation pumps frame, filter, heater, motor starters, junction boxes, switches and piping with the pool filled.
The resulting resistance shall be in accordance with IEEE standard of a maximum value of 1 Ohm between metallic surfaces which shall be the maximum value allowed.
The test results shall be recorded and kept for 10 years.
 
If you are uncomfortable with what you have come across just write them a letter outlining your concerns and decline their offer to work on it.

You have no authority to disconnect power to their equipment unless they allow it. If you do so, they are well within their rights to sue you. As they should.

It's clear from your suggestions you don't know how to make this right so it is best if they find a company that knows.
If I knew before posting I would not have asked. Hard to be an expert on everything.
 
If I knew before posting I would not have asked. Hard to be an expert on everything.
Best to just avoid things outside one's areas of expertise. I don't think a few paragraphs of advice from internet friends is going to give you all that much.

Unless you are willing to spend the resources to learn, but that does not seem worthwhile for a single project.
 
If you are uncomfortable with what you have come across just write them a letter outlining your concerns and decline their offer to work on it.

You have no authority to disconnect power to their equipment unless they allow it. If you do so, they are well within their rights to sue you. As they should.

It's clear from your suggestions you don't know how to make this right so it is best if they find a company that knows.
And when they get several that don't want to work on it for the same reasons, maybe they will realize how serious this might be.
 
And when they get several that don't want to work on it for the same reasons, maybe they will realize how serious this might be.
There will be several that refuse to work on it unless it meets full compliance and perhaps the owners will realize. But they are looking for that magic bullet and some contractor will show up and agree to do the work. Just what they wanted all along. God be with them.
 
I tested resistance from the pool water to a couple old cut off metal pool fence posts that are embedded in the concrete pool deck and got 1 mega ohm. That didn't give me much hope.
Is testing from pool water a standard way of testing a bonding grid? I would guess not.
I would think one would use a 'ductor tester' or mili ohm meter that injects somthing like 1-10 amp's current at an exposed metal point like the ladder or diving board then test all the various exposed metal parts of the pool, the resistance should be about 1 ohm or less. The meter used for testing should have mili ohm resolution with its range set to 2 ohms.
Hopefully others on here will correct me or chime in as I am very interested in this topic and I believe Mike is also.
 
Is testing from pool water a standard way of testing a bonding grid? I would guess not.
I would think one would use a 'ductor tester' or mili ohm meter that injects somthing like 1-10 amp's current at an exposed metal point like the ladder or diving board then test all the various exposed metal parts of the pool, the resistance should be about 1 ohm or less. The meter used for testing should have mili ohm resolution with its range set to 2 ohms.
Hopefully others on here will correct me or chime in as I am very interested in this topic and I believe Mike is also.
The way I have seen it done on Mikes video is to take the known NEV (neutral to earth voltage) and test between all bonded parts of pool to remote earth I believe and all should be the exactly the same.

Example say you have 2volts from hand rail to remote earth you should have that same voltage on all the rest of the pool system.
 
Or maybe they call someone who does know and it gets fixed
So you have 5 contractors that say they will only do it if some rather extensive concrete work is done and all have same reasons why that is the only way to do it but that one guy comes along and says he can do it without all that concrete work you either fall for any of his explanations, are fixed more so on price and hopefully compliance if that is at stake, or just plain gullible. Hopefully the five that did tell you the proper way also did a good enough job of explaining why it needs to be done that way.
 
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