One conductor in multiple lugs

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
I have seen in many panels a large conductor such as 1/0 where the panel ground or neutral buss is to small to accept larger then a #4 , the installer will untwist the strands and split them into two or more seperate ends, like fingers, then insert them in the buss. Is this a non code compliant install?
 
acrwc10 said:
I have seen in many panels a large conductor such as 1/0 where the panel ground or neutral buss is to small to accept larger then a #4 , the installer will untwist the strands and split them into two or more seperate ends, like fingers, then insert them in the buss. Is this a non code compliant install?
Click to expand...

Only a hack would do this.Its not to code.All they needed to do was buy a lug kit that lands under 2 of the terminals.
 
yes. There are adapters to allow a larger wire in small neutal busses, Sq D has them for its panels.
I would recommend every electrican who installs Brand X panels to have a current catalog and pay attention to all the accessories offered, can save you a violation or even better, money.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Only a hack would do this.Its not to code.All they needed to do was buy a lug kit that lands under 2 of the terminals.
Click to expand...

I agree and I carry the lugs you are talking abput in my truck. What I am looking for is any code referance that I might refer to. You must have seen this done more then once yourself, It seems to be a not to uncommon thing to find.
 
acrwc10 said:
I agree and I carry the lugs you are talking abput in my truck. What I am looking for is any code referance that I might refer to. You must have seen this done more then once yourself, It seems to be a not to uncommon thing to find.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the wire is rated as 1 conductor and if we split it we have what ? While in reality it will work it does violate the way it was intended to be terminated.It simply is slop work and most inspectors would tag it.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
The problem is that the wire is rated as 1 conductor and if we split it we have what ? While in reality it will work it does violate the way it was intended to be terminated.It simply is slop work and most inspectors would tag it.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but still what code would you site nec section "slop work"?
 
What if you had an old FPE or another outdated panel and couldn't find the proper lug?
 
infinity said:
What if you had an old FPE or another outdated panel and couldn't find the proper lug?
Click to expand...
Then you'd have yet another reason to add to the list of reasons to replace that FPE panel. :wink:
 
If this is a neutral, then 408.41 might come into play. Each (meaning one or the entire thing) grounded conductor is supposed to terminate in an individual (again, meaning one) terminal. If you split it, only 1/2 of that conductor is in an individual terminal.
 
Last edited:
408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations.
Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.
Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor.

That brings up another question some panel neutral buss bars are listed for more then one conductor, does this supercede the code referance?
 
infinity said:
What if you had an old FPE or another outdated panel and couldn't find the proper lug?
Click to expand...

I have yet to see an old FPE, or a Zinsco for that matter, with two spare ground/neutral holes open. They're all full, and most have two wires already in each of them.
 
acrwc10 said:
That brings up another question some panel neutral buss bars are listed for more then one conductor, does this supercede the code referance?
Click to expand...
Nope... that only means you can put more than one EGC in them, but not more than one grounded (neutral) conductor. Sorry.
 
That brings up another question some panel neutral buss bars are listed for more then one conductor, does this supercede the code referance?
Click to expand...
They have never been listed for use with more than one grounded conductor under the same screw. The violations of this listing rule was the reason 408.41 was added to the NEC.
Don
 
Peteo

Peteo

(IMO) is correct "NEC 110.3 All electrical equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with the listing requirements and. manufacturer?s instructions" it could not possible, be in the products label (or installation instructions) to cut off half and stuff that portion into a connector. Just because it is a cable does not mean you don't have to follow installation instructions.
 
OK so are you folks saying it is OK to put (1) grounded conductor and (1 or more EGC's) under one terminal? I do this all the time and never been cited for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top