One hole straps, up or down?

[electricalperson]

if a 1 hole strap with the hole below the conduit comes off the wall the installer didnt do it right. end of story.

 

[LarryFine]

The reason being is if the strap, for whatever reason, deforms out of shape, the screw will still be there to support the conduit and keep it from falling. There was mention about the screws coming loose, but case in point I have seen a scrap piece of 3" RMC fall from a guys lift, hit the 3/4 EMT straped to the wall (using one holes with a toggle bolt below the conduit), and bend the strap into submission, but the toggle bolt held way.

In response, I say that the same 3" pipe falling on the 3/4" EMT, but with the hole up, would have not bent the 1-hole at all.

 

[480sparky]

.....but case in point I have seen a scrap piece of 3" RMC fall from a guys lift, hit the 3/4 EMT straped to the wall ......

Yep... folks dropping scrap 3" RMC off lifts happens every day all over the country. It's an epidemic that will result in us being forbidden to cut 3" RMC.......:grin:

 

[Mr. Wizard]

In response, I say that the same 3" pipe falling on the 3/4" EMT, but with the hole up, would have not bent the 1-hole at all.

But, it seems the downward force of the 3" would deform the strap to actually open and release the conduit if the screw were on top. Or am I just thinking too deep about this :-?

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Yep... folks dropping scrap 3" RMC off lifts happens every day all over the country. It's an epidemic that will result in us being forbidden to cut 3" RMC.......:grin:

All RMC must be tied off if cutting above 6'

 

[daleuger]

All RMC must be tied off if cutting above 6'

HA! Just dropping a piece from the vise to your foot would be bad enough if you didn't have steel toes. And they'll have a few smashed toes so we'll have to tie it ALL off and they'll crack down harder on you wearing the right boots too.

 

[electricalperson]

i would of reamed that guy a new one for letting a piece of pipe fall off of the lift. he could of killed someone

 

[LarryFine]

But, it seems the downward force of the 3" would deform the strap to actually open and release the conduit if the screw were on top.

I'd say if it hit that hard, it won't make any difference which way the strap is oriented.

I never see straps bent open, just bent away from the wall, or at the screw hole itself.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I'd say if it hit that hard, it won't make any difference which way the strap is oriented.

I never see straps bent open, just bent away from the wall, or at the screw hole itself.

thank y'all for the poll...... it's like 15% up, 40% down... and i gotta run
300' of emt down a wall in the morning.... so i'll do it the same way....
40% one way, 15% the other way... and i'll leave the remaining 45%
off entirely......

thanks for the help.... it simplified things a lot for me.

 

[ActionDave]

Fact- the hole mounted below the conduit creates a hinge point that doesn't exist when mounted above. No need to worry about a strap bent away from the wall when the fastener is on top because it don't happen.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Fact- the hole mounted below the conduit creates a hinge point that doesn't exist when mounted above. No need to worry about a strap bent away from the wall when the fastener is on top because it don't happen.

Your right Dave . An engineer would say the same thing. If the conduit starts to fall from above the strap. The conduit will have leverage (being a way from the wall) Where as if the straps screw was above the conduit it could only go straight down. And it would be hard to pull out at a 90 degree angle.

 

[daleuger]

Man if this keeps up I'm liable to start hanging struts for everything even if it's one piddly little 3/4.......or even more drastically finding another line of work.

 

[steelersman]

Fact- the hole mounted below the conduit creates a hinge point that doesn't exist when mounted above. No need to worry about a strap bent away from the wall when the fastener is on top because it don't happen.

alright Dave! Another guy with commonsense!

 

[electricalperson]

Fact- the hole mounted below the conduit creates a hinge point that doesn't exist when mounted above. No need to worry about a strap bent away from the wall when the fastener is on top because it don't happen.

how will it bend off the wall? what are you putting inside the conduit? lead?

give me a break if people are worried about clips bending why not just install more.

i dont care if an engineer or whatever says that im going to still do it the way i always have.

 

[iwire]

alright Dave! Another guy with commonsense!

I am still waiting for those facts I asked about.

If you can prove that one way is always better then the other way with facts I will change my opinion of your opinions.

 

[steelersman]

how will it bend off the wall? what are you putting inside the conduit? lead?

from stuff hitting hit or falling on it, or from people stepping on it like it's part of a rock wall. (I've actually done this, so Weasel must be right)

give me a break if people are worried about clips bending why not just install more.

Maybe they don't want to needlessly use more when they could just mount them hole topside and meet code minimum.

i dont care if an engineer or whatever says that im going to still do it the way i always have.

That's fine with me. I would have the same attitude as well if I wasn't recently "enlightened" by Karl's information.

 

[jumper]

I am still waiting for those facts I asked about.

The fact is that you are correct; I ran this question by a physicist and he said that shear factor, weight, gravity, materiel specs, buiding conditions and a host of of other factors made this question unanswerable as it is presented. He said " Just do it to code and get the heck out of my office if you are going to ask me silly questions." I guess that answers it for me.

 

[steelersman]

The fact is that you are correct;

so he is correct because some "physicist" told you that it is untestable? Ha ha ha ha. Come off it already.

 

[jumper]

The fact is that you are correct; I ran this question by a physicist and he said that shear factor, weight, gravity, materiel specs, buiding conditions and a host of of other factors made this question unanswerable as it is presented. He said " Just do it to code and get the heck out of my office if you are going to ask me silly questions." I guess that answers it for me.

so he is correct because some "physicist" told you that it is untestable? Ha ha ha ha. Come off it already.

The phyicist did not say it was untestable; he said it was unanswerable as presented. Diifferent conditions would apply at different times and that the engineers who tested for these conditions were probably correct and that the fact that the NEC does not address his issue would imply that it is TOTALLY IRREVALANT. The straps are rated for installation in either position, so IWIRE is correct! It is solely a matter of opinion regarding the position. If you want to argue this further, bring on your numbers! I miss physics and calculus, so I would gladly spar numbers.

 

[steelersman]

If you want to argue this further, bring on your numbers! I miss physics and calculus, so I would gladly spar numbers.

There are no numbers for this. up or down, either way is fine. But Karl still brought up the best point of this thread IMO, that when mounted topside or up that it is less likely to bend outward or back. And that makes perfect sense to me and I don't need a study to show me any numbers for this. My whole "beef" is with the guys that think that down or bottomside is best. The crowd that says: either or, is fine in my book.