Outdoor panel for pool

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Glennsparky said:
It's such a good design that it gets first mention in Marinas and Boatyards (555.3). The "... individual branch or feeder ..." method is a "... suitable alternative."
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That does not say it is a good design, its a code compliant alternative.

I prefer not to have all power go out when one branch circuit has an issue. To each their own for sure. :)
 
Regardless of whether it is a good design or bad there is the question as to whether or not the feeder gfci is a substitute for the branch circuit gfci as called for in the article section I stated. I know it seems like BS but per NEC it is technically not compliant.

Feeder Gfci--- The light fixture trips the feeder gfci and the pump, heater etc are all off. That IMO is the reason I would not use the feeder gfci. Sure it is more costly the other way but put it in your price.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Regardless of whether it is a good design or bad there is the question as to whether or not the feeder gfci is a substitute for the branch circuit gfci as called for in the article section I stated. I know it seems like BS but per NEC it is technically not compliant.
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I agree with you but that only applies to that one particular circuit type so it may not be applicable in all pools.
 
iwire said:
I agree with you but that only applies to that one particular circuit type so it may not be applicable in all pools.
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True it is only pertinent where there is a pool light. BTW, that is almost a given around here for inground pools
 
JFletcher said:
First, if it works and it's code-compliant, and the customer is happy, then it's good in my book.

Do you have more pictures that show all of the panels and equipment, and the wiring/conduit from the Jandy box to the equipment?

Some constructive criticism:

The expansion joint maybe isnt needed, and even if it were that beige box that's out of frame looks like it might obstruct the joint (equipment crowded). The 2 hole strap on the scrap of wood... I know you needed it but it looks like a DIY fix. The LFNMC could be a bit longer to have nice, straight verticals and better U-bends. The control/LV cables in the bottom right could use some dressing/cable mgmt. The bored hole for the LFNMC center bottom under the Jandy panel; if you bored it a bit lower and at a downward angle, that conduit would lay flatter/closer to the wood. The PVC conduit straps and bell box for the receptacle look like they have drywall (black head) screws in them, save for the right side screw of the 2 hole strap on the x-joint looks like an exterior/deck screw. Is the 20A receptacle on a 20A breaker with #12?

imho, spending just a few more minutes on the things Ive mentioned would turn a good install into a showcase or model install, one that you could post pictures of to your website/sales brochures. Might not even take more time than this install did. :thumbsup:
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I can post additional photos of wiring/conduit to each device. Yes, flex could be a little longer for straight bend. I'm a bit anal also but this panel board is way in the backyard. We do use nice exterior screws-think that we were short.
Anytime we have a feed coming up from the ground, an expansion is installed. You can it has settled and the joint is doing it's job.

Black cables and others are low voltage power supply for indoor keypad, automatic water fill system's sensor wire, water and air sensors, and power supply to salt chlorine generator.
The set up is meant for ease of service for us as well the homeowner understanding the components and how to turn on and off equipment. Most panel boards I have seen in my 30 years are a rats nest.

Our work has been code compliant.

Receptacle is 20 amp with #12 wire. This is the only receptacle within 20' of the pool. Even if there is one at the house, this still gets installed for our servicing purposes-air compressor use for winterizing, power tools, etc..

I always value learning even after a long time in business. Criticism does not offend me. The pool is industry has been a mess for many years because of lack of education. I have always been a proponent bettering my industry through education.
 
Again, sorry. Maybe we could keep in mind that retaining junior members is a benefit to the forum.

Dennis Alwon said:
... technically not compliant. ...
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This is not a luminaire operating at more than low voltage. In Florida only low voltage luminaires are allowed; State building code amendment. For me, his method is very viable.

Dennis Alwon said:
... put it in your price.
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But, my first choice is individual double pole breakers. The questions in my first post(#11) are real. Can we use 430.53(D) or the like to put more than one motor on a branch circuit breaker?
 
Glennsparky said:
Jeez, these guys have OCD worse than me!:eek:hmy: Seriously Mystic, your work is way better than the monkeys and hacks we have here in Florida. And, well, I'm gonna use some of what they said, myself.
Questions:
What are those black ?cables? dropping down from the high voltage side of the Aqualink?
Why don't you like the receptacle knockout on the lower right side of the Aqualink box?
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Using the knockout on the side of the panel is a knuckle buster with a bubble cover. The latch for the door makes it tight.
 
Glennsparky said:
The questions in my first post(#11) are real. Can we use 430.53(D) or the like to put more than one motor on a branch circuit breaker?
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Sure you can put more than one motor on a circuit. Hydromassage tubs require an individual branch circuit but not pools.
 
Glennsparky said:
Again, sorry. Maybe we could keep in mind that retaining junior members is a benefit to the forum.



This is not a luminaire operating at more than low voltage. In Florida only low voltage luminaires are allowed; State building code amendment. For me, his method is very viable.



But, my first choice is individual double pole breakers. The questions in my first post(#11) are real. Can we use 430.53(D) or the like to put more than one motor on a branch circuit breaker?
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A 2 pole 20 is used to operate 2 motors. The filter pump and the booster cleaner pump. The cleaner pump gets it's line power off the load side of the Jandy relay. Reason is, the cleaner pump can only operate when the filter pump is running to supply water. The cleaner pump is a recirculating pump different than the pool pump which is a vacuum pump/self priming (not really, water must be added to prime when at pool level or above)

Intermatic dual time clocks have that provision in their models for the same reason. The time clock only for the cleaner gets power to maintain time, and it gets power to run the cleaner pump only when the main filter pump is powered.
 
Mystic Pools said:
Anytime we have a feed coming up from the ground, an expansion is installed. You can it has settled and the joint is doing it's job.
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Got it. Does that mean it was shortened all the way on install?

Mystic Pools said:
Black cables and others are low voltage power supply for indoor keypad, automatic water fill system's sensor wire, water and air sensors, and power supply to salt chlorine generator.
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It just looks like the black ones are running thru the high voltage side. I'd go the long way, up and around the low voltage gutter.
Mystic Pools said:
Our work has been code compliant.
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Inspectors aren't perfect. I stand by my GEC opinion in post #13
 
Glennsparky said:
Again, sorry. Maybe we could keep in mind that retaining junior members is a benefit to the forum.



This is not a luminaire operating at more than low voltage. In Florida only low voltage luminaires are allowed; State building code amendment. For me, his method is very viable.



But, my first choice is individual double pole breakers. The questions in my first post(#11) are real. Can we use 430.53(D) or the like to put more than one motor on a branch circuit breaker?
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We have not used a standard light niche and light whether PVC or stainless in almost 8 years. We use a 12V LED light that is approved and can be set 4" below the water. The lens is about and 1 1/4" in diameter.
With all the recent deaths associated with pool lights, we will never go back to the standard type niche and will continue to GFCI protect the lighting even though the code allows 15V or less not to have protection. I want to sleep at night.
 
Bravo. That was the reasoning for Florida state as well. However, the GFCI on the light circuit just has no effect. The GFCI circuit can't "see" past the x-former windings. Try it yourself, take the low voltage lead off the x-former and tap it hot on the ground bar. As big a fault as you just made the GFCI won't trip.
 
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Glennsparky said:
Got it. Does that mean it was shortened all the way on install?


It just looks like the black ones are running thru the high voltage side. I'd go the long way, up and around the low voltage gutter.


Inspectors aren't perfect. I stand by my GEC opinion in post #13
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Not sure what you mean by shortened. We run enough of the feed to the box, a little extra if possible, and anticipate settling around the conduit.
Point taken on the wiring routing.

Inspectors are not perfect. It comes down to their interpretation of the code. Had a disagreement about 3 years ago and the inspector invited me call the state, NJ, for their view. Turns out I was correct and the inspector, very nice and fair man, passed it after my verification. It was actually concerning this very issue we are debating. I just want to do what is safe and compliant.
 
Mystic Pools said:
Not sure what you mean by shortened.
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I meant, at install, was there play in the expansion fitting for an up stroke. We don't get frost heave down here.
Mystic Pools said:
Inspectors are not perfect. It comes down to their interpretation of the code. Had a disagreement about 3 years ago and the inspector invited me call the state, NJ, for their view. Turns out I was correct and the inspector, very nice and fair man, passed it after my verification. It was actually concerning this very issue we are debating. I just want to do what is safe and compliant.
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I actually was referring to my belief that a seperate structure requires a grounding electrode system.
 
Glennsparky said:
Bravo. That was the reasoning for Florida state as well. However, the GFCI on the light circuit just has no effect. The GFCI circuit can't "see" past the x-former windings. Try it yourself, take the low voltage lead off the x-former and tap it hot on the ground bar. As big a fault as you just made the GFCI won't trip.
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I will try that.

I think the pool light issues were older lights with poor or no bonding, old brass conduit. Deck boxes flush in the patio. Somehow the lights and or niches are getting energized. I read quickly the articles in my trade mags so I can't say exactly what the conclusion was.

Service guys have used the Light Wedge when the original set screw that holds the fixture in the niche rotted. Thing is that is a part of your bonding from the fixture to the niche.
 
Glennsparky said:
I meant, at install, was there play in the expansion fitting for an up stroke. We don't get frost heave down here.

I actually was referring to my belief that a seperate structure requires a grounding electrode system.
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There is play in the fitting. Frost heaves abound.

I would like to explore GEC issue. Not sure if it's needed, but I see your point.
 
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