Outlets Per Breaker

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physis

Senior Member
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

You can't apply a demand factor to a receptacle!

You have to provide it the current it will use.
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

I don't have 2005.

Are you saying it's allowed to reduce the current supplied to a receptacle based on the demand factor?

Rather than reducing the maximum expected load on the service conductors?

[ May 04, 2005, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 

dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by physis:
I thought we were discussing the 180 va for non dwellings.
Umm,just went back to first posting,not specified Dwelling,or otherwise..If I read this post wrong,please forgive me..
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Frank, I completely agree with that.

Trouble is, like I said, both articles are written by CMP 2 and, unfortunately, cannot be understood independant of each other.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Hey Sam,

I'm up in Minneapolis. I should be in bed. . .
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Well, you guys all go to bed then, I don't care, it's only 2130 here. :p

I got time. And not much to do at this hour either. :confused:
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Yeeaahhh, my rriibbss are just about ready to meet there demise. MM,mmm, potatoes and gravy, phwew. I don't need you guys. I'll be juusstt fine.

Good evening guys.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Article 220 looks like a totally different animal now, I'll be interested to see how Sam, with his 2002, is going to talk shop with Rod and Al with their 2005's.

One of these days, I guess I ought to try to figure out the "new" right way to do calculations. :D
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

infinity,care to elaborate further in page#106,Exhibit 220.4 of handbook?
I guess that the real issue here is whether article 220.14 is really about load calculations or actual installations as some have mentioned already in this post. The explanatory material (Exhibit 220.4) provided in the 2005 Handbook clearly indicates that a 15 amp circuit can have only 10 receptacles and a 20 amp circuit can have only 13. This seems to be where the confusion is since it under the article for load calculations. Does that make it mandatory to be installed than way? I'm not sure?

Another example might be 220.14(H) regarding fixed multiloutlet assemblies. The requirement is that every 5 feet of a muiltoutlet assembly be calculated for 180VA unless the assembly would be for heavy use say in a store displaying TV's where every outlet may have a TV plugged into it. The latter scenario would require a calculation of 180VA per 1 foot. So if this were installed in a heavy use scenario could we still install it at 180VA per 5 feet or would the installation have to reflect the calculation with factor of 180VA per 1 foot? Does the NEC require that we use portions of Article 220 for actual installations?
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

220.14(H) ? ? ?

Somehow I know you mean 220.4(H), right?
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

rmatc4

An 1800 square ft dwelling unit would only need 3 - 15 amp breakers for the lighting load. This dwelling unit will have about 50 lighting outlets including outside, basement or crawl and attic storage space. This would equate to approximately 16 to 17 outlets per circuit.

Although this installation would be code compliant I have a desire to inject that this will assure you a couple of return trips and added labor and material cost.

Commercial and industrial is a little bit different the receptacles are 180 VA for each duplex and the lights are per the VA load of each fixture.

This will hold true in the past few code cycles.

Al
In 2002 there is no (H) in 220 14 or 4. In ?05 there is no 220.4
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Thanks, JW, :eek:

I'll settle down.

Let me take a moment in my confusion.

For this thread to proceed, the question needs to focus on whether the hypothetical occupancy within which the question is focused is: </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A dwelling.</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Non-dwelling.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> And the Code referenced should be clearly identified, i.e., is it the 2002 or 2005.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Exhibit 220.4 is an illustration in the 2005 Handbook. It references 220.14(I) which does not apply to dwellings.

[ May 04, 2005, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]
 
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