Paddle Fan installation on Patio near pool

[FionaZuppa]

And if the fan in the picture were less then 5 feet above maximum water level it would require GFCI, it is not likley a fan is permitted by it's instructions to be mounted that low, but the GFCI requirement in 680.22 doesn't address that issue, just that any fixture including a fan in the described zone must be GFCI protected.

not following you on this one as the fan in pic is outside the red zone, so where are you linking 5ft high to a fan?

 

[kwired]

not following you on this one as the fan in pic is outside the red zone, so where are you linking 5ft high to a fan?

The zone the OP is questioning is between 5 and 10 feet from the edge of the pool. The GFCI requirement happens to apply to all luminaires and paddle fans should they be in that area - but only up to five feet above water level. Though it is not likely to have a paddle fan that low, if there would be one it would need GFCI. It also wouldn't be common to have a ceiling luminaire that low, but could be common to have a wall mounted luminaire that low. IMO they worded it to cover any item within the described zone whether it is practical to have certain items there or not.

 

[FionaZuppa]

where is "fan" in the 5-10ft NEC verbiage ??

(4) Adjacent Areas. New luminaires installed between 5 ft and 10 ft horizontally, and not more that 5 ft above the maximum water level of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub must be GFCI protected.

Author’s Comment: Low-voltage lighting systems must not be located within 10 ft of a pool, spa, or hot tub, even if GFCI protected [411.4].

quote above from PDF
Mike Holt’s Illustrated Guide to
Understanding the NEC® Requirements for
Article 680
Swimming Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, Fountains, and Similar Installations

411.2 Definition.
Lighting Systems Operating at 30 Volts or Less. A lighting system consisting of an isolating power supply, the low-voltage luminaries, and associated equipment that are all identified for the use.

411.4 Specific Location Requirements.
(B) Pools, Spas, Fountains, and Similar Locations. Lighting systems shall be installed not less than 3 m (10 ft) horizontally from the nearest edge of the water, unless permitted by Article 680.

the no low-v near a permanent body of water is interesting. i see this pic all the time.

 

[kwired]

where is "fan" in the 5-10ft NEC verbiage ??


(4) Adjacent Areas. New luminaires installed between 5 ft and 10 ft horizontally, and not more that 5 ft above the maximum water level of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub must be GFCI protected.

Author’s Comment: Low-voltage lighting systems must not be located within 10 ft of a pool, spa, or hot tub, even if GFCI protected [411.4].


quote above from PDF
Mike Holt’s Illustrated Guide to
Understanding the NEC® Requirements for
Article 680
Swimming Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, Fountains, and Similar Installations


411.2 Definition.
Lighting Systems Operating at 30 Volts or Less. A lighting system consisting of an isolating power supply, the low-voltage luminaries, and associated equipment that are all identified for the use.

411.4 Specific Location Requirements.
(B) Pools, Spas, Fountains, and Similar Locations. Lighting systems shall be installed not less than 3 m (10 ft) horizontally from the nearest edge of the water, unless permitted by Article 680.


the no low-v near a permanent body of water is interesting. i see this pic all the time.

Last edited by FionaZuppa; Yesterday at 11:23 AM.​

There is no fan in what you quote. 2014 NEC section 680.22(B) which the OP was questioning has "(paddle) fans" in it's title, so they are covered by the content of that article.

The end of your second quote note the words " unless permitted by Article 680."

​

 

[FionaZuppa]

ok, so. my AHJ still stuck on NEC2008.

but now lets jump to NEC2014

680.22, the only reference i see to "5-10ft" has to do with lighting, not fans. and the allowance of lighting within 5ft of inside wall says must be at least 5ft high (low-v exceptions are noted). it seems that ground level low-v lighting less than 5ft from inside wall is permitted under special circumstance defined in 680.22(B)(6). did i read it wrong ? (B)(6) is new, so how many pools prior had low-v real close to the pool?

(B) Luminaires and Ceiling Fans.
(1) New Outdoor Installations. Luminaires and ceiling fans installed
above the water, or the area extending within 5 ft horizontally from the
inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor
hot tub, must not be less than 12 ft above the maximum water level.
(3) Existing Installations. Existing luminaires located less than 5 ft
horizontally from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool,
outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub must be not less than 5 ft above the
surface of the maximum water level, must be rigidly attached to the
existing structure, and must be GFCI protected. Figure 680–26
(4) Adjacent Areas. New luminaires installed between 5 ft and 10 ft
horizontally from the inside walls of a permanently installed pool, outdoor
spa, or outdoor hot tub must be GFCI protected, unless installed
not less than 5 ft above the maximum water level and rigidly attached
to the existing structure adjacent to or enclosing the permanently
installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub.

so perhaps NEC doesnt address OP's Q. an existing light that is say 7ft from pool wall. (1) is "new", (3) is "existing" but does not address a light that is 7ft away, and (4) is "new" light between 5-10ft.

so correct me if i am wrong, no requirement to GFI his light (now fan) ?

 

[iwire]

this or that, hotter/colder, wet/dry........ whatever it is the AHJ has final say,

It would be better if you stop phrasing it that way. You keep making it sound like the AHJ can make or change the rules at will.

Just say 'check for local amendments'.

For example here in MA we use the NEC with about 60-70 amendments.

 

[FionaZuppa]

It would be better if you stop phrasing it that way. You keep making it sound like the AHJ can make or change the rules at will.

Just say 'check for local amendments'.

For example here in MA we use the NEC with about 60-70 amendments.

up until the point the AHJ and you are in court and the judge sides with you, the AHJ does have final say. but sure, "check with you local AHJ as it may have amendments". thats how i see it.