paddle fan R&R high work

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In 30 years, there have been many times when
1) the switch was off and
2) the breaker was off
and I got bit because someone miswired or there were two circuits in a box or some other problem.

I carry an inductive tester and require all my guys to use one before touching any wiring, but I still wouldn't allow them to use an aluminum ladder. It's just asking for an accident.

MHO
 
De-energize the circuit, do your lock-out/tag-out and go to work. If it's not energized you can use any type of ladder safely. Just follow the commonly known ladder safety proceedures.

We have many types and styles of ladders and scaffolding in the shop and on the trucks. What burns me up is when I see one of my guys standing on his tip-toes on top of an upside down bucket which is on a chair and the appropriate ladder is out on the truck.:confused: A $200 ladder sits on the truck rack and a $27/hr man risks his neck so he won't be inconveniened. (I wonder if he took time to shut the c/b off?)
 
electricguy61 said:
In 30 years, there have been many times when
1) the switch was off and
2) the breaker was off
and I got bit because someone miswired or there were two circuits in a box or some other problem.

I carry an inductive tester and require all my guys to use one before touching any wiring, but I still wouldn't allow them to use an aluminum ladder. It's just asking for an accident.

MHO
Click to expand...
"I still wouldn't allow them to use an aluminum ladder."

When i see someone working with an aluminum ladder on electrical work, I just wonder what his total electrical training, and understanding is. The it is not energized excuse will not fly.

My opinion is anyone using aluminum ladders on electrical should find another trade while they still can.

I do not want to attend any more wakes leaving behind broken families.

The one I felt the most, was Phil's loss in 1972 while he was working on a sign with an alum ladder.
 
480sparky said:
OK. Suppose I ditch the aluminum ladder and use a steel scaffold instead?;)
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Very astute observation! This thread could go on forever, but I truly feel it's "to each his own" on this subject. I have used all manner of "height modification devices" over the years, but my favorite was the time I tie-wired a 6' wooden ladder inside of a scissor lift so I could stand on top of the ladder up inside a drop ceiling and work on a box about 18' off the floor. I had checked every circuit for power before cutting...except one. Guess which one I cut-hot and neutral together, a big no-no? You guessed it!! The one I didn't check that was energized at 277V! Foreman was in the back of the building by the panel, and says he heard the conduit rattle and the breaker trip, and came running just knowing someone was dead.
Well, I wasn't dead, didn't even fall off the ladder or get shocked. Did ruin the cutters on a good pair of Klein strippers though. Oh, and wet my pants!

Point is, you can pretty much use whatenver ladder or scaffold you have, but there is no substitute for intelligence and safety procedures. Of course, use fiberglass if at all possible, but if not, just use your freakin' head!
 
Here's another observation: If you're going to assume there is a shock/electrocution hazard, you must also assume an arc-flash hazard.

How many of you suit up in arc-flash PPE when you trim a job?
 
If it's a finished house ods are the ladder would be on carpet, tile, or, wood. We also use tarps under the big step laddrs in finshed areas.
 
eaefadcd-1d8b-4598-a27a-8c03856c2ee3_400.jpg


This fiberglass is the biggest one Little Giant makes (9' A-frame, 22' extension) and that's probably a good thing, being that I wouldn't want to carry anything heavier. The only time I don't use it is when it's a simple job requiring 1 or 2 steps. I've used this sucker for changing out pole-mounted yard lights without breaking a sweat.

Figures... Big Orange sells it for $500 down there. I paid over $900 CDN for mine. Only word of advice: Don't let it fall over repeatedly. The rivets at the rung locks get pushed in, making it harder to engage the locks.
 
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Now let's compare apples to apples. What's shown above is a 9' A-frame.

When you say you have a 22' LG, my guess is that means 22 feet of extension ladder. The one I have is a 21' A-frame.

SkyscraperBase-5.jpg
 
Personally, I hate lil giant ladders. They're a pain to set up and carry, especially in a furnished house. I've always been able to reach most outlets using a 14', fiberglass, a-frame. If not, I have used scaffolding, but I always have avoided lil giants. As far as using al ladders, I don't think it is a good habit but of course it can be done safely. The safety on gun is effective in preventing accidents, but it is more effective to teach someone the dangers of a gun with the safety off. The same goes for conductive ladders and live circuits.
 
Thanks for all of the reply. A few thoughts in no particular order.

-This was a phone quote.
-The HO said he'd been up there personally and couldn't remember if he measured 18' or 20'.
-IMHO any A frame over 14' in furnished home is too unwieldy (sp?) to make it worthwhile. I know scaffolding isn't exactly nimble, but at least it is modular.
-I've certainly used Al ladders on occasion but feel that carrying one would be an invitation to use it at the wrong times. Familiarity breed contempt.
-Little giants are great for things like hanging fixtures over stairwells, but I'm not a fan of them in general mostly because I feel the rung design is uncomfortable. Good in extension mode, not so much in step ladder mode.
-That 21' step ladder gives me the willies just seeing a picture of it. Are you sure that thing isn't photoshopped?:grin: ;)
 
480sparky said:
For this size & type of ladder, they only make in aluminum. Fiberglass would be far too heavy. I am aware of 16 and 20' fiberglass stepladders, but they aren't as versatile as the Little Giants. For the most part, I'm working on de-energized circuits anyway.
Click to expand...

For the MOST part...
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
For the MOST part...
Click to expand...

OK, I'll qualify this one: I don't do ALL my work on this ladder. It's one of those 'specialty' tools that gets pulled out when it is needed. Not every job I do needs this ladder. I probably use it 3-4 times a year.

When I rough a house in, only the bath & a kitchen circuit are hot. Everything else is not terminated in the panel, I do that last. So when I'm using this ladder during trim, there's no power at the ceiling light, fan recessed can, whatever it is I'm working on. The hot wire is not connected to anything in the panel. No breaker for it is installed.

This ladder weighs slightly over 100 pounds, so a fiberglass one, if they made it, would be too heavy to use at all. I'm smart enough to know that aluminum and electricity don't mix. I just make sure electricty isn't part of the mix.

Rampage_Rick said:
That thing scares the heck outta me. Of course you tie off, dont you?

If that were made out of fiberglass it would weigh 100lbs.
Click to expand...

Where do you suggest I tie off to?
DSC04723a.jpg
 
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Relax 480... If you're using the little giant in some sort of scaffold configuration, then I consider it scaffold, which would be made from steel anyway.

Bakers (in your picture) also steel - but the work platform is wood and the wheels are always rubber. Overall working off a baker is safer than high ladder work anyway, so any added electrical hazards are negated by the additional safety afforded by not working off a ladder.
 
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