Paid for drive time?

[petersonra]

Because they're taking TWO breaks, not the one they are allowed.

Our shop employees get two paid 15 minute breaks per day, and an unpaid 30 minute lunch.

If they work more than some number of hours, they get a third break IIRC.

I can assure you that if we are paying for their travel time someplace we are not going to begrudge them a potty or coffee break enroute.

It just seemed to me like a case where the poster was mad at his employees for something that was as much his fault as the fault of the employees.

Engineers of course, are allowed unlimited breaks.

 

[480sparky]

Our shop employees get two paid 15 minute breaks per day, and an unpaid 30 minute lunch. ..........

So they veer off the road for a 15-minute 'pit stop' to get some coffin nails, Mt. Dew and some chew on the way to the job site.

Then in the middle of the morning, they merrily take their 'allowed' 15-minute break (which, as usual, ends up to be 20-25 minutes.... we all know this!).

In the mid-afternoon, they take their 'allowed' 15-minute break.

On the way back to the shop, they gotta stop for some more chew, a Gatorade and pick up some lottery tickets.

So they just got paid for ? hour of totally unproductive time. If there's two guys in the truck, that's one hour per day that there's no return on. Five hours a week, then 250 hours per year.

Now figure out how many trucks you have out there. 2? 5? 10?

Adds up to some very serious money.

 

[kwired]

I doubt there are many owners who will prohibit employees who are driving to a job site on company time from stopping along the way to take a leak or get some coffee.

The more coffee that is consumed the more leaking there will be

So they veer off the road for a 15-minute 'pit stop' to get some coffin nails, Mt. Dew and some chew on the way to the job site.

Then in the middle of the morning, they merrily take their 'allowed' 15-minute break (which, as usual, ends up to be 20-25 minutes.... we all know this!).

In the mid-afternoon, they take their 'allowed' 15-minute break.

On the way back to the shop, they gotta stop for some more chew, a Gatorade and pick up some lottery tickets.

So they just got paid for ? hour of totally unproductive time. If there's two guys in the truck, that's one hour per day that there's no return on. Five hours a week, then 250 hours per year.

Now figure out how many trucks you have out there. 2? 5? 10?

Adds up to some very serious money.

Mine and any of my employees breaks are never consistant from day to day.

One day we may be doing work that is very physical and will take several breaks, or extreme weather (hot or cold) may require several breaks. Another day may be easy work and we will not take a designated break at all. There is usually plenty of rest time between tasks, going to restroom, talking on phone or with customer or somebody else. If somebody is tired and needs to take a break then they just do so. I do myself if needed. They must understand that a significant reduction in productivity means they may no longer have a job so overdoing the breaks will not work. When doing a lot of physical activity productivity eventually slows down if breaks are not taken anyway plus is not good for a person to over do it, health risks and injuries will start to increase when this happens.

 

[shepelec]

So they veer off the road for a 15-minute 'pit stop' to get some coffin nails, Mt. Dew and some chew on the way to the job site.

Then in the middle of the morning, they merrily take their 'allowed' 15-minute break (which, as usual, ends up to be 20-25 minutes.... we all know this!).

In the mid-afternoon, they take their 'allowed' 15-minute break.

On the way back to the shop, they gotta stop for some more chew, a Gatorade and pick up some lottery tickets.

So they just got paid for ? hour of totally unproductive time. If there's two guys in the truck, that's one hour per day that there's no return on. Five hours a week, then 250 hours per year.

Now figure out how many trucks you have out there. 2? 5? 10?

Adds up to some very serious money.

On the same token, remember the guys that will work through break and eat lunch on the fly when doing a shut down or a major wire pull, there has to be a balance.
Having a strong foreman goes a long ways and micro-managing will only drive you nuts and tee off your crew.

The best thing an owner of a company ever said to me was "You guys did a great job" or " Tell the crew the pizza on Friday is on me".

 

[480sparky]

Stopping at the Kwik-E-mart for smokes, chew, Mt. Dew and lottery tickets is not 'driving to/from the job site'.

When it occurs once in a blue moon, it can be ignored. But there are those who will abuse it and end up giving their employer only 5-6 productive hours for an 8-hour paycheck.

 

[tryinghard]

If you have $100 dollars budget to spend for a particular task that requires multiple transactions will you manage your dollars as you spend or just never look?

Project management, budgets, and man hours are just like this. It's not micro managing or nit picking it's management 101 - if this don't take place you won?t need to worry about it because the business won't last GARATEED; regardless what side your on.

 

[tkb]

Micro managing and nickel & dimeing the guys can backfire with a lot of non-productivity.

 

[kwired]

Micro managing and nickel & dimeing the guys can backfire with a lot of non-productivity.

Incentives for good performance also need to be offered otherwise you still will have a lot of non-productivity. Doesn't need to be anything astronomical just something to make them feel good about themselves, the company, or possible future opportunities is a start.

 

[rodneee]

So they veer off the road for a 15-minute 'pit stop' to get some coffin nails, Mt. Dew and some chew on the way to the job site.

Then in the middle of the morning, they merrily take their 'allowed' 15-minute break (which, as usual, ends up to be 20-25 minutes.... we all know this!).

In the mid-afternoon, they take their 'allowed' 15-minute break.

On the way back to the shop, they gotta stop for some more chew, a Gatorade and pick up some lottery tickets.

So they just got paid for ? hour of totally unproductive time. If there's two guys in the truck, that's one hour per day that there's no return on. Five hours a week, then 250 hours per year.

Now figure out how many trucks you have out there. 2? 5? 10?

Adds up to some very serious money.

what you describe above has become
"standard operating procedure" for many firms in today's world...it is really nothing more than an unwritten perk for the men...i feel sorry for the owner; he cuts out early on a friday, heads to his vacation home, hops onto his boat,and has his fishing trip ruined because he feels his employees are taking advantage of him...worse yet he calls the office at 4:20 pm and the office girls are already gone for the weekend...

 

[tryinghard]

...i feel sorry for the owner; he cuts out early on a friday, heads to his vacation home, hops onto his boat,and has his fishing trip ruined because he feels his employees are taking advantage of him...worse yet he calls the office at 4:20 pm and the office girls are already gone for the weekend...

This is one thing I've never noticed in my 31 years - really

 

[Dennis Alwon]

two 15 minute breaks is 30 minutes a day for an average of 220 work days in the year means that one employee is wasting 14 work days on 15 minute breaks.

 

[kwired]

two 15 minute breaks is 30 minutes a day for an average of 220 work days in the year means that one employee is wasting 14 work days on 15 minute breaks.

And if that employee is not allowed to take a break he may very well waste more time resulting in reduced productivity. He is human and needs a break once in a while. If he is actually doing heavy physical activity most of the time taking more breaks may lead to more productivity than less breaks will.

If you have employees that are allowed to use their cell phones while on the job you may be suprised at how much time you may be losing. A quick message about something that may be important I have no problem with but to just chat about anything in general is rediculous. Even if using a headset so you can still have free hands you can tell just watching them that they are not focused enough on what they are doing to do it efficiently.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have gone most of my working career without a break other than lunch. I find a break slows me down and makes me lethargic. Everyone is different but what I see is those 10 or 15 minute breaks becoming 20-30 minute breaks.

Around here there is 1/2 hour for lunch. Tell me how these guys can get in their cars drive 5-10 miles to get something to eat and be back in 30 minutes. They generally don't.

My point is that there is a tremendous amount of wasted time in our society. I have worked with many employees and we never took breaks. We may keep a drink with us and sip at it all day but never the sit down and chill breaks, except lunch.

I tell my men bring their lunch or they don't get to eat. I am not wasting my gas for them to drive miles to get food when they can come prepared- lunch is just another tool , IMO.

BTW multiply 14 days by 10 guys and it gets quite expensive.

 

[kwired]

I don't take scheduled breaks, most of my breaks are a couple minutes here and there. If I am digging a trench with a shovel I take lots of breaks some a few seconds some a few minutes. The older and more out of shape I get the more necessary this is. I am not going to make an employee do something I wouldn't do myself.

Taking a break can be simply changing tasks with someone else sometimes. Repetive actions can become very boring and mistakes are easily made when the mind starts to wander because of the boredom.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have never told my employees they couldn't take breaks. Those that did never lasted long simply because they were not good workers-- coincidence maybe but it seems my best workers took lunch breaks and that's it.

They come to the shop in the morning and I pay travel time to and from the jobs. Most ec's around here either don't pay travel or only pay one way.

 

[jumper]

Average day for me working for EC, assuming job is 45 miles or less from shop. Data is 10 years old.

Be on jobsite at 7:00 AM or at shop at 6:15AM to ride in company truck if provided. Optional on both sides.

Break 9:45AM to 10:00AM.

Lunch 12:00PM to 12:30PM

Quitting time 3:30PM, drive home or get in company truck.

Pay 8 hours.

If I am required to be at shop, load materiels, or other stuff before starting time or after quitting time I get paid.

If job was more than 45 miles from shop, EC provides transportation and 5% per diem for extra travel time.

Out of town (more than 2 hours from shop): hotel room, 5% per diem, and $20.00 a day for added food expenses.

Sometimes the system had to be tweaked, but I always made 8 hrs or more, so I was cool with it.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

Engineers of course, are allowed unlimited breaks.

Sounds like I need to come work at this place.

 

[tryinghard]

Minimum breaks are non negotiable by law.

The OP is asking where time starts and stops. In California as example the law requires all employees get paid for time accrued where they are directed to report. Those who drive company vehicles at minimum can be paid minimum wage and I believe OT still applies, this is intended to be for travel not running around picking up tools, material, just daily running (this time is normal wage).

I don?t know anyone actually adjusting travel to minimum wage but it?s leagal. I would venture to say other states are similar but regardless it?s the owner?s responsibility to know and where to find it when they don?t.

 

[readydave8]

We do not know the actual circumstances of the travel taking longer. If the owner is only willing to pay for 1.75 hours of travel versus the 2.25 hours the employees are actually taking, he should just say so to his employees, rather than whining about it on a forum.

To me, it is a no brainer to pay for a motel when the one way travel time is this long. I bet the guy doing the complaining would expect his employees to share a room too.

I bet he will complain about how much they spend on food on his nickle too.

The thing is that IMO it is the job of the employer to determine the work standards that employees are to follow and clearly communicate them to the employees. It is unfair to not set such standards and then whine about it after the fact.

if the employer is too cheap to pay for the time the employees might spend stopping along the way for coffee or potty breaks, he should say so up front.

To me it would be more than fair for the employer to agree he will pay 1.5 hours each way of travel time, since it does not appear like there is any requirement he actually pay anything at all. OTOH, there has to be some kind of inducement that will encourage his employees to actually do this. 90 minutes each way seems fair to me.

I would point out that with paying 3 hours a day of extra pay, the employer is getting into an issue with OT being an issue. Instead of paying it out as X number of hours, he might want to just declare it as a fixed bonus amount per day, so that he does not have to pay OT on those hours.

I'm sorry I made you mad.

The rest of the story is that the job I was talking about was back in the late 80's, since then I have prospered more by working alone.

And I still maintain that as an employee I'd try to make as much money as I could for my employer, thinking that I'd be rewarded. And that worked out well most of the time too.

I never forced anyone to work for me. If they didn't like the deal they were free to go elsewhere.

There are many like me that are good at the work but bad at management, I solved it by working for other contractors and by working by myself with occasional contract employees.

I didn't realize I was whining, sorry about that, I'll try not to do it again.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Minimum breaks are non negotiable by law.

I believe a lunch break would qualify as the only necessary break in an 8 hour day.