Paid for drive time?

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480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
What bothers me the most about this thread is the fact that some of us who are business owners seem to think paying drive time is strictly a business decision. It's covered under labor laws, folks. Just because you own the business doesn't mean you get to ignore those laws.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
What bothers me the most about this thread is the fact that some of us who are business owners seem to think paying drive time is strictly a business decision. It's covered under labor laws, folks. Just because you own the business doesn't mean you get to ignore those laws.

and it gets complicated by different situations.

I don't think any employer is required to reimburse for travel or pay wages for travel time to the regular place of employment. Employee is responsible for getting himself to work. Employer is generous if he helps in any way with getting the employee to work.

If a company vehicle is offered and is allowed to be taken home as well as be used for personal reasons it becomes harder to determine what is work and what is not.
 

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
My only problem with that is do employees arrive at shop and immediately get into trucks and head for jobsite or is some work done before leaving for jobsite such as loading the truck or any other task that needs done at shop? Or do you ever have to stop at supply house on the way to job site? Time paid should start when employer required tasks start.

You need to understand that in New England there is a severe shortage of work and a glut of workers looking for work.
To push travel is not wise for employees.
Most of the guy are and should be happy to just have a job.
Whether it is legal or not, It could make the difference of a company getting a job or not.

Times are tough on both sides, and when the economy changes the attitudes and polices will make changes as well.
There has to be give and take by everyone.
 

satcom

Senior Member
What bothers me the most about this thread is the fact that some of us who are business owners seem to think paying drive time is strictly a business decision. It's covered under labor laws, folks. Just because you own the business doesn't mean you get to ignore those laws.

Labor laws and insurance compliance, try to cheap out on your employee and it will always end up costing you more.

I always treated my employees as i would like to be treated and i ended up with great employees
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
and it gets complicated by different situations.

I don't think any employer is required to reimburse for travel or pay wages for travel time to the regular place of employment. Employee is responsible for getting himself to work. Employer is generous if he helps in any way with getting the employee to work.

If a company vehicle is offered and is allowed to be taken home as well as be used for personal reasons it becomes harder to determine what is work and what is not.


My point is that there are employers who will tell employees to 'report to the shop'. So they show up at 7AM, get in a company van and drive ? hour to the job site. Then work until 4PM (with a ?hr lunch in there), and then drive the ? hour back to the shop, arriving at 4:30. Yet they only get paid for 7:30 - 4. In most places, this practice is illegal.

Now, if they were driving a company truck home, and were told to report to the job site at 7AM, then I could see where it would not be compensated time for the employee to drive to the site. He/she would have to do so if they were driving their own vehicle, so it's not. Just because they're in a company vehicle should make no difference.
 

knoppdude

Senior Member
Location
Sacramento,ca
I think the guy may be a keeper just for the fact that he is willing to stand up for himself. He will probably look after your best interests on the job site as well, because he might not be easily pushed around by the other trades. As for travel time, as I understand it, he gets paid from when he leaves the shop in company truck to return. If I were in your spot, I would give him a chance, and see how he works out. He may be a money maker for you, and pay for that travel time through good productivity. If he doesn't work out, you can always terminate his employment.
 

tryinghard

Senior Member
Location
California
My 2.5c worth
There are a lot of good points in this thread this area of employing can easily be abused and or misunderstood on both sides. In my opinion and past practice there are distinctive different markets each requiring different practices for paying labor, here are a few.
Construction: meet on the job at starting time, carpooling is up to each individual, foreman should have company truck no riders, material should be primarily drop shipped to jobsite (containers are cheap) but foreman should be involved/responsible in material & tool issues meaning often driving around or personally loading at shop - best to have warehousemen for this. Foreman is paid from time starting truck to end of day with travel to their home or shop on their own time and next day begins again, special cases for out of town jobs or long distances (maybe additional to labor commissioner required perdium & travel).

Service: time should start when entering truck to leave for call (this includes call specific truck stock). Usually single worker but if others involved all get paid because this same format is how the company charges from start time to end, the end is when the serviceman gets back into truck to leave. Serviceman clocks in on next proceeding call...and so on till end of day, at end of day travel to their home or shop is on their own time and next day begins again.

Negotiated Service/Contract: default same as service but special terms often apply

Bottom line each state has a Labor Commissioner and they determine the rules, owners need to know these rules and how to find them when they don?t know. Good communication is important and if we want our staff to be clear and honest we must model this by being clear and honest from the start but like this thread reveals this takes quite a bit of energy when things are complicated. It?s good to have some policy written to give both ourselves a chance to revise as well as hand to employees for their record.
 

shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
If you are telling the employee to return your vehicle to your shop he's on your time.
Taking the vehicle home is a different issue and is considered a benifit.

How can an employee coducting company business be considered on their own time?
Can they stop for a cocktail on the way, visit a friend, do shopping, get a speeding ticket or have an at fault accident without any reprecussion? Doesn't sound like personal time to me.

Sounds like a boss who wants 110% but is only willing to pay for 90%.:mad:

Asking questions about company policy before there is an issue is smart.
Taking advantage of someone because it's a lousy economy is being a weasel.

Ask your self how you would like to be treated.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I agree, if you require him to come back to the shop to drop off the truck then he should be paid. If your concerned that he will stop along the way, make that clear to him that he's not to do that or have him call when he's leaving the job-site then you will know how long it should take him to get to the shop.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
at our shop, the guys report to the shop in the am take the trucks and get paid when they arrive on the job
What if some jobs are 15 minutes away and others at an hour away?
Is it reasonable to pay a guy less because he has to drive further to get to the job?
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Well every state is different but check out this from the US DOL:

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/traveltime.htm


Time spent traveling during normal work hours is considered compensable work time. Time spent in home-to-work travel by an employee in an employer-provided vehicle, or in activities performed by an employee that are incidental to the use of the vehicle for commuting, generally is not "hours worked" and, therefore, does not have to be paid. This provision applies only if the travel is within the normal commuting area for the employer's business and the use of the vehicle is subject to an agreement between the employer and the employee or the employee's representative.
 

sameguy

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Master Elec./JW retired
Go hire the guys that come to the shop and brown you to your face and then stick you in the end when your back is turned, sounds like this guy is up front and would like to know for both of you what the deal is.
If you don't like him now wait till you talk money, sounds like he knows his worth; do you?
 

satcom

Senior Member
We never hired off the street, over the years all our new employees went thru a formal 4 Year program, so we never had to deal with someone with years of bad employee habits, but when it came to pay in the trucks, they were paid for all time spent in the truck, not because we were great employers , but we could not afford the penalties from playing with an employees time and the result of having an employee in a commercial insured truck covered by comp insurance off the payroll getting in an accident, that could cost the company everything, and i think everyone is missing the big issue of having an employee in a truck that is not covered in case of an accident, just to save a few bucks, not smart business if you are in a state that had those insurance laws
 

handy10

Senior Member
Would it be fair to say that if the customer is billed for driving time then the person doing the driving should be paid for the time? Going to and from the shop in the morning and evening is a different issue.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Coming at this from a slightly different perspective..

We provide a breakdown service for the equipment we manufacture. If we have to attend to a breakdown, the customer gets charged for all the hours including traveling time to and from the site. Many of the sites are at least a couple of hours travel each way.

Some of our customers have negotiated contracts with discounted rates. This provides 24/7 call out cover and an agreed mobilisation time - i.e that we will have someone en route to site within a maximum time - typically one hour. The clock starts ticking from when the guy gets in his car until he gets back out at the end of the job. If we get paid for that time, it seems not unreasonable to pay the guy for that time.

We charge the customer travel one way, so we eat the time we pay on the way home, regardless how far away they are. If they stop by a supply house on the way to the job, travel time ends, and work time starts regardless of how much further they have to drive after that.
 

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
An advantage of letting a good guy take the truck home is that they will have more than their hand tools.
I know that the more experienced guys collect specialty tools and will make it more profitable to the company by using them instead of always coming to the shop.

If a guy has to pick up a truck at the shop, they would most likely only bring their hand tools and nothing else.
 

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
This is a sore subject with me because I once worked for an EC that claimed that truck time was not to be paid. We were expected to show up to the shop, load the trucks, load the trailers, stop by the supply house if needed, the drive to the jobsite (no matter how far away) then, and only then, would we go on the clock.

That type of deal is total crap. If you abuse your guys like that, they will abuse you. Trying to pinch penny's at the expense of your men will cost you many dollars in the end.

This is not at all complicated: An employee should get paid as long as the employer is making demands of him:

Wherever a man is required to be at the beginning of the day is where his time starts. If he is required to go to the shop, his time starts at the shop. If he is only required to be at a jobsite, his time starts at the jobsite.

The same applies at the end of the day. Doesn't matter what he is driving (unless state law says otherwise): If he is required to go back to the shop, he should be paid until he gets there. If he isn't required to go anywhere once he leaves the jobsite, then his pay stops there.

-John
 

fisherelectric

Senior Member
Location
Northern Va
OP here. Interesting thoughts on this subject. I was used to getting paid from the shop to the job and after my 8 hours driving back to the shop on my time. When I interviewed this guy he brought up the subject, which I can respect. i checked it out and found that he was right, by law he should get paid until the truck is back at the shop. If he were to take the truck home he doesn't get paid for that travel time. What bothered me is that I now have to tell him to be at the shop at 7:00, go to the job and be back at the shop by 3:30 (with 1/2 hr lunch), meaning he would have to leave the (some) jobs before the guys who drive directly to the job in their own vehicles or I would end up paying him overtime for the trip back to the shop each day.
The guy was up front about it and I can't fault him for that, and the fact is he was right. As far as him being a troublemaker? He is pushy. He's also a hustler (in a good way). Wants to get the job done and move on. Lives too far away to be taking the truck home. I'll have to see what happens with him and how he'll fit in. I do appreciate all the input.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I can't understand the arrogance of the guys saying that you shouldn't have to pay your employees from the time they get to the shop till the time they leave it if that's what you tell them to do. If you had a business with a timeclock on the wall, there wouldn't be any question in anyone's mind since there's no way to punch in once you've left the shop and gotten to the jobsite or punch out once you have your tools loaded on the truck. There's no difference between a shop-to-shop job and working at McDonald's in that sense except that at McDonalds you can do your job without driving anywhere, and it's not the employee's decision where he or she has to work.

To the OP - As far as having some guys doing a shop-to-shop day and others driving to the job directly in the same company, there's obviously some reason for you to want the guy to drive the truck to the jobsite. If it's delivering tools or materials then hey, somebody's got to do it. If the other guys can't work without tools that have to get loaded onto the truck earlier so the shop-to-shop guy can leave on time, then maybe he should get the extra overtime each week so you don't lose productivity on the other guys. If the other guys feel cheated somehow, tough.

The best thing is to comply with the labor laws in your area and charge customers accordingly. Everybody's happy then.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
The guy was up front about it and I can't fault him for that, and the fact is he was right. As far as him being a troublemaker? He is pushy. He's also a hustler (in a good way). Wants to get the job done and move on. Lives too far away to be taking the truck home. I'll have to see what happens with him and how he'll fit in. I do appreciate all the input.

Think of what would happen if an employee keeps a log of hours worked to include drive time and he hasn't been paid for the time and then he goes to the labor board after a couple of years.

Once you know and understand the law then you know what you must do to be legal and no surprises. You may be able to offer him a supervisors job at a salary and escape the overtime if this would work out better for you and him. Or have him take a longer lunch if he is agreeable. Now it's whatever can be worked out to stay legal.
 
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