Painting old light fixtures

[Jerramundi]

No, you've merely insulated it. If anything, painting it will make it safer, not more dangerous.

So if the metal parts of a fixture are INSULATED via the paint... what's the point in ensuring continuity via bonding of the metal parts?

They would have to be conductive to a degree in order for a fault current to the enclosure to make it's way back to the EGC and ultimately trip the OCPD.

 

[Jerramundi]

No, you've merely insulated it. If anything, painting it will make it safer, not more dangerous.

The fault current would either (1) have to travel along the painted surface to the EGC OR (2) the paint doesn't act as a complete insulator and allows current to transverse the layer of paint to the metal below.

Either way there has to be a conductive path back to the EGC.

 

[AC\DC]

word to the wise. I would tone down calling people dumb. They are trying To help you.

 

[LarryFine]

So if the metal parts of a fixture are INSULATED via the paint... what's the point in ensuring continuity via bonding of the metal parts?

They would have to be conductive to a degree in order for a fault current to the enclosure to make it's way back to the EGC and ultimately trip the OCPD.

Yes, but I'm not aware of any requirement that says they have to do whatever they can to increase or maximize the likelihood of a fault.

If the housing were to become energized, it's because an improperly-exposed conductor was able to scrape through whatever paint there is.

 

[Jerramundi]

word to the wise. I would tone down calling people dumb. They are trying To help you.

I'm not trying to be insulting. It's just frustrating that I have to clarify this.
I suppose the right way to say it would be to say that "the metal has been insulated," but unless you're a lawyer, I feel like this is/was self-explanatory.

 

[LarryFine]

The fault current would either (1) have to travel along the painted surface to the EGC OR (2) the paint doesn't act as a complete insulator and allows current to transverse the layer of paint to the metal below.

I say neither occurs. The OCPD will open when there is enough conductivity.

Either way there has to be a conductive path back to the EGC.

Agreed; I just don't think the paint is, could be, nor need be part of that pathway.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm not trying to be insulting. It's just frustrating that I have to clarify this.

I get your point. I just don't think fixture paint is conductive.

If a hot wire touches it, nothing will happen until the electricity pierces the paint.

 

[Jerramundi]

Yes, but I'm not aware of any requirement that says they have to do whatever they can to increase or maximize the likelihood of a fault.

If the housing were to become energized, it's because an improperly-exposed conductor was able to scrape through whatever paint there is.

But wouldn't you rather said conductor hit the enclosure and trip the breaker... as opposed to just float there... laying in wait for the next unsuspecting maintenance personnel?

 

[Jerramundi]

I say neither occurs. The OCPD will open when there is enough conductivity.

But isn't the main idea behind ground fault protection and grounding/bonding to provide a low impedance pathway back to source for this very reason? That is to say, to allow for significant conductivity so said OCPD can be tripped?

 

[Jerramundi]

My apologies to anyone and every who I may or may not have offended in this thread. I value ALL of your input. I let my frustration get the best of me. I'm just trying to not do a hack job by just going to HD and picking up whatever spray paint is on the shelf without thinking this through.

 

[Hv&Lv]

My apologies to anyone and every who I may or may not have offended in this thread. I value ALL of your input. I let my frustration get the best of me. I'm just trying to not do a hack job by just going to HD and picking up whatever spray paint is on the shelf without thinking this through.

I still don’t understand why your painting them if you weren’t asked to. Sounds like your replacing junk for a cheap client..
Especially when new will probably be cheaper than your labor to paint and refurbish them..

 

[LarryFine]

But wouldn't you rather said conductor hit the enclosure and trip the breaker... as opposed to just float there... laying in wait for the next unsuspecting maintenance personnel?

That can happen with almost any installation, which is one reason we're supposed to de-energize.

 

[LarryFine]

But isn't the main idea behind ground fault protection and grounding/bonding to provide a low impedance pathway back to source for this very reason? That is to say, to allow for significant conductivity so said OCPD can be tripped?

Yes, but there's no requirement of "when" that happens. When the contact is great enough for current to flow, the OCPD will trip concurrently (no pun intended - honest!) with the hazardous condition.

In other words, the breaker will trip when it needs to. I agree that it depends on the fault in order to operate. I'm just adding that it doesn't need to react until that contact occurs; we need not hasten it.

 

[Jerramundi]

I still don’t understand why your painting them if you weren’t asked to. Sounds like your replacing junk for a cheap client..
Especially when new will probably be cheaper than your labor to paint and refurbish them..

I'm THINKING ABOUT painting them as a favor to the client. I'll be charging for the materials needed to paint them and a portion of the labor involved.

It's a client that's given me a lot of work since starting my business and a friend of the family. It's also a church that doesn't have a ton of funds available.

The idea of upgrading the lights to LED retrofits but leaving the housings the dingy metal that they are bugs me personally too.

The primary concern is the grounding/bonding issue resulting from painting them.

 

[LarryFine]

The primary concern is the grounding/bonding issue resulting from painting them.

I would paint them externally, and not affect the interior at all.

 

[Jerramundi]

I would paint them externally, and not affect the interior at all.

I still feel like somewhere over the rainbow there's something like a min. ohm requirement for the metal components of a listed light fixture assembly. I would be shocked if there wasn't (pun INTENDED) haha.

 

[Fred B]

If you are very concerned over electrical insulating property of the painting Try an experiment, paint a part, firmly attach wire to ground terminal being sure to use the star washer, them meter from ground terminal and a wire laid onto the painted surface, and what is the resistance reading. I would be interested in knowing the results.
You could always also go into the notorious HD and meter one off the shelf for comparison.

 

[Jerramundi]

If you are very concerned over electrical insulating property of the painting Try an experiment, paint a part, firmly attach wire to ground terminal being sure to use the star washer, them meter from ground terminal and a wire laid onto the painted surface, and what is the resistance reading. I would be interested in knowing the results.
You could always also go into the notorious HD and meter one off the shelf for comparison.

Fred I think you've just filled my schedule for the winter months, haha.

 

[Jerramundi]

Just out of curiosity, is there a qualitative value set forth by the NEC for a low impedance path as it relates to ground faults?

 

[markebenson]

I'm worried about a ground fault to the metal casing not tripping the breaker if I cover said metal casing in an acrylic paint.

With an internal ground wire attached to a grounding screw i see no relevance to painting them.