panel box wire routing question

[gadfly56]

Plans.



Generally its I want a recept and switch here,here, here, here, here, and also this and that and the other thing, over there, all the while the sheetrockers screwguns are buzzing in the background.

JAP>

If that's standard for resi work, I'm glad I never was in that. I can't work like that.

 

[ActionDave]

If that's standard for resi work, I'm glad I never was in that. I can't work like that.

Well we all know everything goes exactly as planned in commercial.

 

[richie921]

I'm with posters saying circuit count doesnt add up. If it's a 40 space panel and he needs 42 breaker spaces then (as he said) he needs 2 more spaces. HOWEVER, now to feed said sub panel he needs 2 use 2 breaker spaces for the 2 pole 50 feeding the sub panel meaning NOW he needs 4 spaces in the sub panel for the original 2 extra circuits and the 2 he had to remove to fit the subfeeder breaker. Hope he didn't put the 6/3 under the same lugs as the se conductors and put 2pole 50 in subpanel.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[ActionDave]

I'm with posters saying circuit count doesnt add up. If it's a 40 space panel and he needs 42 breaker spaces then (as he said) he needs 2 more spaces. HOWEVER, now to feed said sub panel he needs 2 use 2 breaker spaces for the 2 pole 50 feeding the sub panel meaning NOW he needs 4 spaces in the sub panel for the original 2 extra circuits and the 2 he had to remove to fit the subfeeder breaker. Hope he didn't put the 6/3 under the same lugs as the se conductors and put 2pole 50 in subpanel.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Well let's just nitpick this guy to death over details that don't add up to nothing more than leftover buns at a hot dog eating contest. I don't care if he went out there and put one breaker in per day for forty days and ended up with thirty nine breakers.

What matters is not 40 or 42 or 52 circuits. What matters is he wants to know if it's okay to route branch circuit conductors through another panel and the answer is, yes it's fine.

 

[richie921]

Well let's just nitpick this guy to death over details that don't add up to nothing more than leftover buns at a hot dog eating contest. I don't care if he went out there and put one breaker in per day for forty days and ended up with thirty nine breakers.

What matters is not 40 or 42 or 52 circuits. What matters is he wants to know if it's okay to route branch circuit conductors through another panel and the answer is, yes it's fine.

How do u know its ok if u don't know how he connected the feeders? Let's say he violated code and put sub feeders under same lugs as the se conductors. Now they would be installed in violation, technically Service Entrance conductors with no OC protection and NOT permitted to be in same nipple as branch circuit conductors. But I guess hey violate code once might as well do it repeatedly right. We can all laugh about how stupid code is while we eat hot dogs.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

How do u know its ok if u don't know how he connected the feeders? Let's say he violated code and put sub feeders under same lugs as the se conductors. Now they would be installed in violation, technically Service Entrance conductors with no OC protection and NOT permitted to be in same nipple as branch circuit conductors. But I guess hey violate code once might as well do it repeatedly right. We can all laugh about how stupid code is while we eat hot dogs.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Primary question is essentially whether a feeder and a branch circuit(s) can go in the same raceway, answer is yes.

He did eventually clarify that the feeder is supplied by a 50 amp breaker in the service panel.

For those that asked why not install a larger panel - I don't know that "loadcenters" are all that easy to come by in N3R enclosures with more then 42 pole spaces. I have used 60 and 84 circuit panelboards in commercial panelboards both 240/120 as well as 480/277 versions, and indoor as well as outdoor cabinets.

 

[difowler1]

wire routing.

wire routing.

You are correct. There ended up being more circuits in the subpanel because of the problem you mentioned. I was 2 over at first. I didnt go into that because it seemed too long and boring to explain when my main goal is trying to figure out if the wiring method is a code violation. I havent started my code book search yet. Anyone have a reference number on that subject?

 

[difowler1]

wire routing.

wire routing.

The 6/3 that feeds the subpanel starts in the main panel on a 50 amp breaker that goes to the subpanel main lugs thru an offset nipple that connects the two panel boxes. The branch circuits come from the house and are routed into the main panel, then out to the subpanel without making any connection in the main panel. The branch circuits go through the same offset nipple as the 6/3 to the subpanel. At the subpanel I put the branch circuits on 15 amp breakers.

 

[Little Bill]

What I'm wondering is if NM is allowed in the conduit from main panel to sub since it's an outdoor panel. The "old wet location" thing and all.

 

[GoldDigger]

What I'm wondering is if NM is allowed in the conduit from main panel to sub since it's an outdoor panel. The "old wet location" thing and all.

If it goes into the back of the outside panel (surface mount) or back, or any edge of a flush mount panel, it has not, IMHO, actually gone outside in a raceway. So no problem using NM.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Smart $]

If it goes into the back of the outside panel (surface mount) or back, or any edge of a flush mount panel, it has not, IMHO, actually gone outside in a raceway. So no problem using NM.

Ummm, if the sub is outside right next to the main. He mentioned offset [fitting]. I assume panels are surface mount as are most exterior mounted panels. I believe it is a violation: NM in a wet location, the inside of a wet location installed conduit (or fitting).

 

[gadfly56]

Primary question is essentially whether a feeder and a branch circuit(s) can go in the same raceway, answer is yes.

He did eventually clarify that the feeder is supplied by a 50 amp breaker in the service panel.

For those that asked why not install a larger panel - I don't know that "loadcenters" are all that easy to come by in N3R enclosures with more then 42 pole spaces. I have used 60 and 84 circuit panelboards in commercial panelboards both 240/120 as well as 480/277 versions, and indoor as well as outdoor cabinets.

All he needed was 42. From Home Depot, here's a Homeline and a Siemens (wow! that one's pricey). It looks like the maximum breakers is 54 for the Siemens and 42 for the Homeline.

 

[Smart $]

All he needed was 42. From Home Depot, here's a Homeline and a Siemens (wow! that one's pricey). It looks like the maximum breakers is 54 for the Siemens and 42 for the Homeline.

Tandems are much less expensive if you already have the 40 space panel.

 

[gadfly56]

Tandems are much less expensive if you already have the 40 space panel.

Well sure, but if he could have used tandems he would never have started the thread.

 

[kwired]

Tandems are much less expensive if you already have the 40 space panel.

Unless the panel wasn't designed to accept tandems/quads.

Next problem is AFCI's take up a full space, but so far there is still some non AFCI circuits allowed

 

[jumper]

Well let's just nitpick this guy to death over details that don't add up to nothing more than leftover buns at a hot dog eating contest. I don't care if he went out there and put one breaker in per day for forty days and ended up with thirty nine breakers.

What matters is not 40 or 42 or 52 circuits. What matters is he wants to know if it's okay to route branch circuit conductors through another panel and the answer is, yes it's fine.

:thumbsup:

 

[Smart $]

Well let's just nitpick this guy to death over details that don't add up to nothing more than leftover buns at a hot dog eating contest. I don't care if he went out there and put one breaker in per day for forty days and ended up with thirty nine breakers.

What matters is not 40 or 42 or 52 circuits. What matters is he wants to know if it's okay to route branch circuit conductors through another panel and the answer is, yes it's fine.

:thumbsup:

There's three ways to get a job done:

1. Do it right.
2. Hack it.
3. Hang up your belt and let someone else do it.

:angel:

 

[jumper]

There's three ways to get a job done:

1. Do it right.
2. Hack it.
3. Hang up your belt and let someone else do it.

:angel:

Gimme a break. Ya really wanna call out that offset nipple as a red tag?:blink:

Minor violation - yes, but hack?:happysad:

I done did far worse.

 

[jap]

Gimme a break. Ya really wanna call out that offset nipple as a red tag?:blink:

Minor violation - yes, but hack?:happysad:

I done did far worse.

Usually It's not a hack.
It's inexperience.

Although allowed, I never run branch circuits through the same nipple as the feeder.
I just think it looks unprofessional but that's just me.

JAP>

 

[ActionDave]

..... I havent started my code book search yet. Anyone have a reference number on that subject?

There is no rule against feeder conductors and branch circuit conductors using the same pipe, so there is nothing to find.

230.7 is as close as you will get but applies only to service conductors.