Panelboard Questions

[jim dungar]

Jim, those look like Square D tandems to me. QO20303020 is a set of (1) 2030 and (1) 3020

The inner handle tie looks like a Square D but not sure about the outer handle tie.

I am talking about the two side by side single pole tandems on the upper left. I don't see any Square D logo or information stenciled on those breakers

 

[Jraef]

Interesting, Why would they make such as the "genuine" QO is, for the most part, readily available. Also how would the use of a "Classified" breaker in the SD panel, even though code allowed, effect the SD long standing policy that the use of any breaker other than "theirs" would void any panel warranty?

If you were, for some reason**, to buy a Square D panel and buy ONLY the Siemens or Eaton Classified breakers, it would likely be a Code violation, because in the initial installation, those breakers would constitute a 110.3B violation of the PANEL listing, let alone the Square D panel warranty.

But AFTER a panel is installed and the warranty is already expired anyway, a contractor or homeowner doing retrofit work can ADD the Classified breakers.

**During the Covid supply chain crisis, this sort of thing was happening a lot more than it had before... One of my local Eaton distributors stocks the Eaton QO Classified breakers, which generally sat on the shelf collecting dust. But in 2021 they sold out completely.

 

[Jraef]

I am talking about the two side by side single pole tandems on the upper left. I don't see any Square D logo or information stenciled on those breakers

Jim,
For some reason, the "newish" QOTs (side x side), have no logo on the front, brand new from the factory.

Makes me wonder if maybe they are a little ashamed of themselves for being copycats...

 

[JoeStillman]

Jim,
For some reason, the "newish" QOTs (side x side), have no logo on the front, brand new from the factory.

Makes me wonder if maybe they are a little ashamed of themselves for being copycats...

They're probably made by an OEM who is neither of them, but sells it to both. I toured the Westinghouse plant in Beaver PA back in the last century and they were OEM'ing for Square D and Cutler Hammer, which was a separate company back then.

 

[jaggedben]

If you were, for some reason**, to buy a Square D panel and buy ONLY the Siemens or Eaton Classified breakers, it would likely be a Code violation, because in the initial installation, those breakers would constitute a 110.3B violation of the PANEL listing, let alone the Square D panel warranty.

But AFTER a panel is installed and the warranty is already expired anyway, a contractor or homeowner doing retrofit work can ADD the Classified breakers.

Since when does the code care whether a panelboard is still under warranty?

 

[jim dungar]

Jim,
For some reason, the "newish" QOTs (side x side), have no logo on the front, brand new from the factory.

 

[James.taylor]

Interesting, Why would they make such as the "genuine" QO is, for the most part, readily available. Also how would the use of a "Classified" breaker in the SD panel, even though code allowed, effect the SD long standing policy that the use of any breaker other than "theirs" would void any panel warranty?

Why not get a proper QO breaker? Classified in my eyes should always be a last resort and if the proper manufactured breaker is available get it! In the mean time a classified may be a temporary solution but if the product that is right is available why would you settle for less? It’s your job to warranty and your license on the line!!! Ask a Ford dealership to install Chevy parts??? Ill warranty workmanship forever but a non listed product (not listed on the panels labels) would never be warrantied as at that point it should probably upgraded anyways. Vehicles didn’t used to have seatbelts but its a registration requirement now and as a licensed electrician you are responsible for it!!!

 

[James.taylor]

You could certainly operate each of those handles and verify the paint contamination is not giving any obvious trouble. Other than that the biggest problem that panel has from this view is bad labelling.
..
"Allowed" is funny wording. If it was legally installed originally nothing in the building code compels a proactive replacement. Much older panels are still happily working to this day. Just watch out for signs of failure. And watch for FPE or Federal Pacific breakers, which fail to trip in a way that won't be apparent on inspection.

By saying FPE i hope you ment FPE stablock because they were the ones that were known for trip failure and federal made multiple versions. Regardless i have seen panels/fused disconnects from the early 1900’s working, that doesn’t mean they are todays standards which is not only a safety concern but also old standards ruin electronics which are in everything, every day!!!!! If buss bars were sprayed with paint they are compromised, they make enough good connection to work but apply a heavy load to them and they fail! The panel boxes come with a cardboard cutout to put over it till you’re ready to put the cover on for a reason!!!

 

[brycenesbitt]

old standards ruin electronics which are in everything, every day!!!!!

How does old standard wiring ruin modern electronics?

 

[ramsy]

old standards ruin electronics which are in everything, every day!!!!!

Integrating electronics with overcurrent protection is a power-interruption nuisance, which ultimately fails in the energized state, violates UL 486, and has ruined this standard.