peninsula receptacles

[pismo]

Pismo and Pipemaster, just keep reading 210.52(C)(4) until you figure it out, it is clear as day. I don't understand how it has been quoted several times in this thead and you are still discussing it.

I have read that article many times. That section applies to COUNTERTOPS not peninsulas. Penisulas are not part of the countertop requirements. That's why it has it's own section 210.52(C)(3). I know I am correct. Can't we all get along? Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm wrong. You will not beat me into submission without accurate information. Telling me to read it until I figure it out is very narrow minded. Treat people with respect. The "my way or the highway" doesn't work with me. Just the facts.

 

[pismo]

Good. We've established that one is the minimum, provided the space is more than 12" by 24".

Now, go to 210.52(C)(4). The peninsula has a sink in it. That divides the peninsula into two separate spaces. And the language at the end of 210.52(C)(4) makes it clear that 210.52(C)(4) applies to 210.52(C)(3) -- "Countertop spaces separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3).

QED, the penisula is now two separate spaces, a peninsula and an island. With that in hand, apply the requirements of (C)(2) and (C)(3) to the two spaces.

It would be less unclear if (C)(4) were before (C)(3), but the meaning is clarified by the reference to (C)(3) at the end of (C)(4).

You are applying countertop requirements to a peninsula. A peninsula only requires a minimum of one receptacle.

 

[pismo]

Well this would explain the confusion

I'm not confused at all. Perhaps you are. Don't be so bitter it raises the blood pressure and bad things might happen. Besides I was born and raised in the beautiful state of California.

 

[tallgirl]

You are applying countertop requirements to a peninsula. A peninsula only requires a minimum of one receptacle.

What's the title of 210.52(C)(3)?

What's the title of 210.52(C)?

 

[roger]

Besides I was born and raised in the beautiful state of California.

Might that be Citrus Heights?

Roger

 

[pismo]

What's the title of 210.52(C)(3)?

What's the title of 210.52(C)?

Peninsula counter spaces. I suppose you would require 2 outlets on an island? I saw a picture in a book published by Stallcup and there is a picture of a peninsula with a cooktop in the middle of it and it shows only one receptacle. If the sink was an issue I think it would say it in the peninsula section. The countertop outlets are different than the peninsula and island requirement.

 

[pipemaster]

looks like Pismo and I are the only ones here who know how to apply the code correctly.

 

[iwire]

looks like Pismo and I are the only ones here who know how to apply the code correctly.

No, it actually looks like you can not read.

 

[pipemaster]

Oh great pipemaster we poor stupid residential guys after all know nothing.We bow to the conduit you run,LOL.33 years doing commercial,industrial,residential and I have never encountered a more arrogant person than you.I`m sure the moderators of this forum will look hard at this post.But I assure them it is not derogatory at all.We are all here to learn and arrogance is no way to learn.The day we think we can`t learn something is the day we have lost the ability of knowledge.
Many newcomers have come here and learned alot from the years of knowledge the people of this forum have bestowed upon them.You remind me of the guy I knew years ago that refused to teach a newbie what he needed to know.Why because he was afraid that the newbie would learn more than him and take his job away.
To the respected moderators of this wonderful site.Please don`t misconstrue what i am saying,it`s just that we all sit here and debate RESPECTFULLY for the most part but here comes a guy that is arrogant and brash.He thinks nothing of degrading others in his own profession.He acts like his is the only valid opinion.I`ve had my troubles with some in this forum over the time I`ve been here but I still respect there knowledge and expertice.
Pipe master if you must be so arrogant please do all of us a favor and stay away.If I am out of line anyone please feel free to send me a PM.I`m just sick of hearing him whine and complain about things that are here day in and day out.If you don`t like it there are several options #1 don`t come back #2 POUND SAND #3 bite the bullet.Sorry if i offended anybody !!!!!!!
OK I`m done venting

I am not offended by your reply. Your just another angry person that when you are wrong and have no base for your arguement you have to get personal. Thats fine I forgive.

 

[pipemaster]

No, it actually looks like you can not read.

See another angry person. What does that have to do with the code

 

[jefftaman]

You know I was agreeing with pipemaster and pismo until I actually opened up my code book and read 210.52C(4). Its there in black and white that the seperate space requirement applies to peninsulas.

 

[iwire]

See another angry person. What does that have to do with the code

Not angry at all.

Just stating a logical conclusion.

You have been shown the code section

(4) Separate Spaces Countertop spaces separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3).

That is a very clear requirement, even I can understand it.

 

[jcole]

I would like to here Mr. Holts opinion or have I already?

It clearly states that C4 applies to C3. I think some of you guys are arguing just to be arguing.

 

[tallgirl]

Peninsula counter spaces. I suppose you would require 2 outlets on an island? I saw a picture in a book published by Stallcup and there is a picture of a peninsula with a cooktop in the middle of it and it shows only one receptacle. If the sink was an issue I think it would say it in the peninsula section.

Why? Does the peninsula section say that you to size your conductors correctly? Can I put #18 wire in my peninsula because it doesn't say that a 20A branch circuit in a peninsula must be wired the same as any other 20A branch circuit w.r.t. the size of the conductor you use?

And I'll note, the book by Stallcup is not the NEC.

The countertop outlets are different than the peninsula and island requirement.

Why do you think 210.52(C)(4) mentions that it also applies to 210.52(C)(3)?

210.52(C)(4) Separate Spaces. Countertop spaces separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3).

#1. Is a "peninsular counter space" one of the three "countertop space" types listed in 210.52(C)?
#2. Is a sink one of a rangetop, refrigerator, or sink?
#3. If the answer is "Yes" to #1 and #2, does the requirement that 210.52(C)(3) apply?
#4. If you insist that the answer to #1 or #2 is not "Yes", why?
#5. If the answer is "Yes", but you insist 210.52(C)(3) still doesn't apply, why?

 

[roger]

Here is a graphic and some text that may help Bill/Marc (Pip-n-Pis) understand.

Part III. Required Outlets

New exception and diagram added to clarify that a countertop receptacle outlet isn’t required on a wall directly behind a rangetop or sink. And change clarifies when an island countertop is to be divided into separate sections when determining the number of required countertop receptacle outlets.

(C) Countertop Receptacle – Dwelling Unit. In kitchens and dining rooms of dwelling units, receptacle outlets for countertop spaces must be installed according to (1) through (5) below. Figure 210-11

Author’s Comment: GFCI protection is required for all 15 and 20A, 125V receptacles that supply kitchen countertop appliances [210.8(A)(6)].

(1) Wall Counter Space. A receptacle outlet must be installed for each kitchen and dining area countertop wall space that is 1 ft or wider, and receptacles must be placed so no point along the countertop wall space is more than 2 ft, measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet.

​

Ex: A receptacle outlet isn’t required on a wall directly behind a range or sink as shown in NEC Figure 210.52. Figure 210-12

Author’s Comment: If the countertop space behind a range or sink is larger than the dimensions noted in Figure 210.52 of the NEC, then a GFCI protected receptacle must be installed in that space. This is because, for all practical purposes, if there’s sufficient space for an appliance, an appliance will be placed there.

(2) Island Countertop Space. One receptacle outlet must be installed at each island countertop space with a long dimension of 2 ft or greater, and a short dimension of 1 ft or greater. When breaks occur in countertop spaces for appliances, sinks, etc., and the width of the counter space behind the appliance or sink is less than 1 ft, each countertop space is considered as a separate island for determining receptacle placement [210.52(C)(4)]. Figure 210-13

​

Roger


​

 

[charlie b]

This has gone on long enough. I think the original question has been answered. In my opinion, the rest of the discussion has been all about two members having fun at the expense of the other participants.

Pipemaster and Pismo, you are wrong. You don?t have to accept that statement on the strength of my assertion alone. But if you ever install a peninsula that has a sink in the middle, and don?t put receptacles on both sides of the sink, do not be surprised if the Inspector fails you. So far, I have been professional in my statements within this post. Now I am going to be rude. I am going to exercise my executive privilege, by closing the thread. If either of you wishes to object, feel free to send me a PM. If you wish to protest to the Forum Owner, you should be able to get his contact information from the home page.