Phase A and Phase B in single phase wiring diagrams

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dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
jwelectric said:
Jon

I have had a similar discussion in another forum about a 240 volt single phase service.
What I am trying to get across is why it is called a single phase panel.

In the last illustration that I posted I posted a voltage divider not a phase divider although if I connect a multi channel scope to the circuit and use the mid point of the two resistors as the ground point for the scope I will display two sine waves that are 180 degrees out of phase.

The one thing that is consistent, all across this great nation most residential services are called 240 volt single phase and they are not called 120 volt two phase.
Another thing that is consistent is the last illustration that I posted would be called a 120 volt circuit not a 60 volt two phase circuit.

I have stood in front of classrooms for over five years now and one of the biggest problems I run into especially with students that transferred from electronic technology courses is explaining the difference between 240 volt single phase and 120 volt two phase.

When displaying the sine waves on a scope the size (value of the voltage or current) will be proportionate to the points of reference. When using a multi channel scope the sine waves displayed on screen will also be proportionate to the points of reference.

The one thing that cannot happen is for the applied current to oppose itself anywhere in the resistive circuit that I posted although I can see two sine waves that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. The sine waves that are displayed on the scope are 60 volts but the applied voltage is 120 volts. The current across the circuit will always travel in the same direction and can never reverse itself half way through the circuit.
:)

Mike, you are confusing me. If we are dealing with single phase, 2 phase, or 3 phase, I assume we are talking AC. With AC (alternating current) how do you stop current from reversing without the use of rectifier, diode, etc.?
 

rattus

Senior Member
georgestolz said:
I'd be interested to see what A-N & B-N look like on an oscilloscope. Your thinking bears consideration.

George,

Van and Vbn would be mirror images of each other. That is, when Van is at its positive peak, Vbn would be at its negative peak. That is why Vab is 240V.

Strictly speaking Van and Vbn are two phases (180 deg separation) although it can be confusing to describe them this way since true two phase systems employ 90 degrees of separation.

The phasor diagram is shown below:

120V /180 <--------------N--------------> 120V /0
 

MAS2006

Member
Location
Missouri
You need to use an isolation transformer to power your scope. Then you can reference to any point in the system under test (safely).
 

rattus

Senior Member
MAS2006 said:
You need to use an isolation transformer to power your scope. Then you can reference to any point in the system under test (safely).

I would not do that because I might end up with a "hot" scope chassis. I would use a multi-channel scope, connect the ground clips to neutral/ground, connect the probes to Va and Vb, and then set the scope to display Ch A - Ch B (Vab).
 
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