pipe vs. romex???

[Inspectorcliff]

Is wire pulled in pipe (conduit) safer than romex????

If so, then why is romex allowed in our homes but not our offices ?

If no one mentioned it, 518 and 518-4.

 

[kid_stevens]

If no one mentioned it, 518 and 518-4.

Good point no Romex in assembly areas.

Romex is allowed in homes because it is cheaper to install and the people that wanted to make their fortune in wiring lobbied to get it that way. Just like the ones shoving those troublesome AFCIs down our throats.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I left San Diego in 98 for good. Finally someone is thinking!

Little north of that, actually north of LA.

NM is nice I was just there a few weeks ago. My mom owns a KOA camp ground in Clayton and so we drove through your way and then stayed a day in Santa Fe.

 

[kid_stevens]

Lowest paid electricians in the US though.

 

[eprice]

Good point no Romex in assembly areas.

Not necessarily. 518.4(B) goes on to allow NM if the building is not required to be fire-rated construction.

 

[jaylectricity]

Lowest paid electricians in the US though.

Cost of living, and space for growth makes it hard for electricians to get paid there. Just enjoy your $120,000 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage, with laundry room, 10 foot ceilings, and 300 sq ft kitchens ...

 

[tallguy]

Cost of living, and space for growth makes it hard for electricians to get paid there. Just enjoy your $120,000 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage, with laundry room, 10 foot ceilings, and 300 sq ft kitchens ...

Not to mention the traffic.

My father moved there a few years back... Imagine going from pre-Big Dig Boston to Albuquerque. Cracks him up when they talk about "how bad it's getting". Why, some days there are 15 minute backups... brutal :roll:

 

[peter d]

Romex is allowed in homes because it is cheaper to install and the people that wanted to make their fortune in wiring lobbied to get it that way.

I'd say there is far more than manufacturer influence that keeps NM cable in the code - the most important of which is that it has a safe track record that goes back many decades.

I would much rather wire a home with NM cable than pipe or MC cable, so count me in that group that wants to make their fortune in wiring.

 

[jrdsg]

sprinklers

sprinklers

in a single-family home, sprinklers are intended to prevent property damage. smoke detectors are for life-safety. heat detectors and sprinkler heads don't go off until conditions in a room are already fatal to the occupants. improving smoke detector coverage yields much greater life-safety benefits than installing sprinkler systems.

not that it has to be one or the other...

 

[Mister Kool]

Good point no Romex in assembly areas.

Romex is allowed in homes because it is cheaper to install and the people that wanted to make their fortune in wiring lobbied to get it that way. Just like the ones shoving those troublesome AFCIs down our throats.

great point

its about the
money money money money

NOT safety

 

[RHaggie]

great point

its about the
money money money money

NOT safety

NM is as safe as conduit. The history of NM suitability is there for anyone to see.

But, maybe you think housing should be less affordable? And a house should take longer to wire, and cost more in interim financing, with no real benefit for safety besides the wiring is in a metal raceway and the electrician can charge much more for installing it? A house is already the biggest investment people make in thier lives, let's make it IMPOSSIBLE for any but the richest out there to buy a house and wire them with rigid galvanized screw pipe- none of that set screw stuff- like they used to do it. We can say it is safer. That would severely restrict the need for the construction business but, it's all about lining the pocket anyway.

Do you also propose that we quit building houses out of wood? Stone, brick or concrete would be MUCH safer and more energy efficient...oops, there goes saving money again. Don't want to conserve around here, do we? That would be a sign of an unethical, dollar worshiping cheapskate.

NM, PVC plumbing, engineered wood products, kiln dried lumber, pneumatic nailers, cordless drills, skill saws, GFCI recepatcles, pre-fabricated trusses, pre-hung windows and doors, self-sealing shingles, thermally protected luminaires and all sorts of modern products are ways to make safe housing available to more people than ever before. Houses today are made differently than in the old days because they have to be to meet the demand of the public. People want a safe place of their own to call their own.

Who is really focused on the money aspect here?

 

[Mister Kool]

NM is as safe as conduit. The history of NM suitability is there for anyone to see.

as safe as???? hmmmm more toxic fumes in a fire + rodent chewing through NM causing shorts, arcs, and other hazards and this is possible even when installed correctly.

But, maybe you think housing should be less affordable? And a house should take longer to wire, and cost more in interim financing, with no real benefit for safety besides the wiring is in a metal raceway and the electrician can charge much more for installing it? A house is already the biggest investment people make in thier lives, let's make it IMPOSSIBLE for any but the richest out there to buy a house and wire them with rigid galvanized screw pipe- none of that set screw stuff- like they used to do it. We can say it is safer. That would severely restrict the need for the construction business but, it's all about lining the pocket anyway.

well I live in Chicago and NM is not legal in ANY dwellings for SAFTY REASONS and do you really think that if romex was allowed to be used in Chicago that the price of homes would actually go down ?????LOL...LOL... I DONT!!! that money saved would not benifit the consumer at all..lol and the price of homes would continue to GO UP!!!

Do you also propose that we quit building houses out of wood? Stone, brick or concrete would be MUCH safer and more energy efficient...oops, there goes saving money again. Don't want to conserve around here, do we? That would be a sign of an unethical, dollar worshiping cheapskate.

hmmm a concrete house would stand up to a hurricane and yes I do believe that some homes in certain areas should have concrete walls . then we wont be laughed at by other countries(not that I care that they are laughing at us BUT I do see their piont) for letting greed control everything we do even to the point where we disreguard safety issues to make/save a buck.

NM, PVC plumbing, engineered wood products, kiln dried lumber, pneumatic nailers, cordless drills, skill saws, GFCI recepatcles, pre-fabricated trusses, pre-hung windows and doors, self-sealing shingles, thermally protected luminaires and all sorts of modern products are ways to make safe housing available to more people than ever before. Houses today are made differently than in the old days because they have to be to meet the demand of the public. People want a safe place of their own to call their own.

Who is really focused on the money aspect here?

any way we go someone is going to benefit monetarily, case in point AFCI protection. We know the manufacturers are gonna get a lot of money, and the manu's of the tamper resistant recepts are too, but the question does remain will they save lives. I do believe that money IS behind a lot of things and the lobbiest probably money driven but lives being saved is worth paying extra to me.

thanx for the reply RHaggie
I respect your view

 

[peter d]

as safe as???? hmmmm more toxic fumes in a fire

That's not a valid reason. There are far more sources of toxic fumes in a fire than some romex inside a wall - carpet, furniture, mattresses, and the million other things made out of plastic or synthetics found in our homes these days.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

NM is as safe as conduit.

While I will agree that NM is a safe wiring method, there is no way that I would agree that it is as safe as a metallic conduit system. Rodents, screws, and nails will damage the NM much easier then they will damage the metallic conduit.
Don

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Mister Kool,

... but lives being saved is worth paying extra to me.

Then I assume that you would support a code rule that requires the use of rigid steel conduit in dwelling units. It would be safer than the wiring methods that are now permitted and might save a live or two.
Don

 

[Mister Kool]

Mister Kool,

Then I assume that you would support a code rule that requires the use of rigid steel conduit in dwelling units. It would be safer than the wiring methods that are now permitted and might save a live or two.
Don

hello don
lol I would support rigid conduit over electrical metalic conduit if I thought the difference in safety in a dwelling was measurable(sp)
rigid conduit is mainly used for its less corrosive properties as in direct burial, save Hazardous locations (but there are no Haz Loc's in dwellings, at least there shouldnt be...lol) .

 

[Mister Kool]

That's not a valid reason. There are far more sources of toxic fumes in a fire than some romex inside a wall - carpet, furniture, mattresses, and the million other things made out of plastic or synthetics found in our homes these days.

hello peter d
toxic fumes in smoke inhalation is the leading cause of death in fires and to add more toxic fumes through a known toxic(when burned) material is not helping at all.

 

[peter d]

toxic fumes in smoke inhalation is the leading cause of death in fires and to add more toxic fumes through a known toxic(when burned) material is not helping at all.

I just don't buy that argument. The burning contents of a room pose a far greater danger than the wiring that is protected by walls and ceilings. Furthermore, the quantity of PVC insulation on NM cables is very small compared to the PVC/synthetic content of home furnishings that I already mentioned.

The "toxic fume" argument against NM cable is a "straw man argument" at best.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Mister Kool

lol I would support rigid conduit over electrical metalic conduit if I thought the difference in safety in a dwelling was measurable

It would be...drywall screws will go through EMT without much trouble, but they don't go through rigid very easy.

toxic fumes in smoke inhalation is the leading cause of death in fires and to add more toxic fumes through a known toxic(when burned) material is not helping at all.

The additional toxic fumes from things like NM in a dwelling unit are so small that it would be difficult to measure them. Also unless the fire originates with the NM, the ocupants will either be out of the building or dead before the fire reaches the NM.
Don

 

[kid_stevens]

It would be...drywall screws will go through EMT without much trouble, but they don't go through rigid very easy.

I want to see that trick, the chance of a screw point hitting dead straight on is next to none. Any deflection from dead center and 90 degrees will send the screw askew. I shoot self starters all the time and even Spatz brand screws which do wood, drywall, metal and concrete (with one screw type) will not self start and dig into EMT unless perfectly centered. Plus most Drywall screws deflect when they hit knots in the wood, nails, nailing plates and the EMT that I had on one side of a stud and the phone box being installed on the other side with too long of a screw.

Now the number of fires and circuit problems that have been caused by staples through Romex!. I have been remodel wiring a house that was gutted in 2003 because a staple for an alarm addition cut a wire and came shorted the wiring. The 20 year old breaker did not trip but the staple had shorted hot and neutral together when the alarm installer turned the circuit back on. Luckily my friend and her family left with the installer. The alarm company called two hours later to report the alarm was not visible. They drove home and had only the outside adobe walls left.