pipe vs. romex???

[don_resqcapt19]

I want to see that trick, the chance of a screw point hitting dead straight on is next to none. Any deflection from dead center and 90 degrees will send the screw askew.

I have seen it more than once where the EMT was run in wood studs. The wood provides support for the screw and does not let it deflect as easily as it would in a metal stud. It doesn't happen the majority of the time, but it does happen. It is also more likely where you have 3/4 or 1" EMT than where you have 1/2" EMT.

Now the number of fires and circuit problems that have been caused by staples through Romex!.

And that is one of the reasons the code requires AFCIs.
Don

 

[RHaggie]

Anecdota stories, as drama filled as they are, still do not change facts.

NM, properly installed, and assuming you make the effort to kill rats that show up later on, is as safe as conduit. Going Hulk on a staple is not something a professional does. Smoldering cyanides and copper chlorides inside of a metal raceway are as toxic as the coverings on a cable exposed to free air. The galvanized coating on the conduit is toxic when vaporized. So... what? There is no real threat in that trace amount of insulation between NM and MC considering what is on the wall in CD's, childrens toys and other furnishings around the house. It's a dangerous world out here.

The point is that homes are inherently safer than public buildings because the escape route are numerous and familiar to the occupants and the number of people inside a given home is small. I don't want to hear exceptional incidents about Bill Gates' house being a quarter mile to the sixth floor fire escape as proof of an exception. And yes, people do die in fires every day and lose property. I ask you: are the fire departments rationaly smaller in Chicago (wasn't a cow the ignition source for Chicago burning to the ground?) than in Birmingham? I doubt it. The wiring failure exists in the smallest instance, if at all. Normal folks, living in normal houses will likely never have a building electrical wiring method as the source for starting a fire. Having a frayed cord- I guess we need to install rigid conduit on coffee pots now -, faulty appliance or some moron plugging a generator into a dryer plug during a utility power failure will and have caused more tragedies than jerking romex ever will.

 

[480sparky]

... Having a frayed cord- I guess we need to install rigid conduit on coffee pots now -, faulty appliance or some moron plugging a generator into a dryer plug during a utility power failure will and have caused more tragedies than jerking romex ever will.

Might this be what you are referring to?:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

NM, properly installed, and assuming you make the effort to kill rats that show up later on, is as safe as conduit.

I will never agree with that statement...yes NM is a safe wiring method, but metallic conduit is safer. It is much harder to cause physical damage to the wiring system when it is run in metal conduit. The NFIRS (national fire incident reporting sytem) data shows that Chicago, which uses metal raceway exclusively for dwelling occupancies, has (4) times fewer residential electrical fires as a percentage of total residential fires, than found nationally.
Don

 

[RHaggie]

The NFIRS (national fire incident reporting sytem) data shows that Chicago, which uses metal raceway exclusively for dwelling occupancies, has (4) times fewer residential electrical fires as a percentage of total residential fires, than found nationally.
Don

Nailed by Don and his facts again!!! I humbly relent and stand corrected. NM is not AS safe as conduit and the data proves it.
Does the NFRIS say how many fires are caused by cows in Birmingham?

 

[RHaggie]

Might this be what you are referring to?:

Not exactly. There is a metalic stainless receptacle cover on the buried outlet not a plastic one. But close.

 

[kid_stevens]

Going Hulk on a staple is not something a professional does.

Too many Pros do this in new construction. My money comes from repairing new installs.

Smoldering cyanides and copper chlorides inside of a metal raceway are as toxic as the coverings on a cable exposed to free air. The galvanized coating on the conduit is toxic when vaporized.

The toxic smoke in conduit stays there if the building does not burn down. As the fumes move away from the heat source they cool off and land on the inside of the conduit again.

The galvanized coating requires welding temps to become toxic fumes and if you are in a house at that temp you are dead any way.

In my welder days I had to weld that stuff in small batches and the coating goes just before the base steel melts. Not at 450 or 600 degrees.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I will never agree with that statement...yes NM is a safe wiring method, but metallic conduit is safer. It is much harder to cause physical damage to the wiring system when it is run in metal conduit. The NFIRS (national fire incident reporting sytem) data shows that Chicago, which uses metal raceway exclusively for dwelling occupancies, has (4) times fewer residential electrical fires as a percentage of total residential fires, than found nationally.
Don

Yeah, but it's sure a lot easier to add an outlet or other device to a house wired in NMC than one that's wired in black pipe.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

John,

Yeah, but it's sure a lot easier to add an outlet or other device to a house wired in NMC than one that's wired in black pipe.

I think black conduit went away in the 40's. As far as adding something, fishing is fishing, I don't see much difference between adding with NM or conduit, unless you are adding something in an existing box.
Don

 

[cowboyjwc]

John,

I think black conduit went away in the 40's. As far as adding something, fishing is fishing, I don't see much difference between adding with NM or conduit, unless you are adding something in an existing box.
Don

And it very well might have, I'm just a young pup of 49, but I've still run into hot green wires a few times. There are buildings in this town that date from the 1700's to yesterday.

Just saying that you can get into an attic and cut an NMC and just add a couple of boxes and be on your way. With pipe you have to cut it and box it and then repull at least one of the ends. Then if you want to keep the wiring all the same you have to crawl into a 3' attic and try to fish a 4' piece of pipe down the wall. :grin:

Not disagreeing that pipe is safer than NMC, but there are guys out there that don't have a problem running PVC exposed either. I think it's just personal preference. I for one never like MC or AC as I liked to be able to add if I needed to.