plumbing fitting not listed as ...

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Ponchik

Ponchik

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CA
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Electronologist
How would you enforce water pipe bonding if the entire or part of the plumbing is done with these fittings? Use a bonding strap between each plumbing pipe or since each plumbing pipe is isolated from the next then it is not a complete piping system? Or since the pipes are isolated from each other then what is the likelihood of any portion of the pipe becoming energized to cause shock hazard.
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I have emailed the manufacturer today to see if they are listed to carry electrical fault current.
 
Bonding of metal water piping systems is required and not based on "likely to become energized" as other metal piping systems. While such a water piping system is mostly metal, I don't believe it should be considered a metal water piping system under Code context and intent. IMO, the Code context means a water piping system which has electrical continuity throughout, with perhaps only a few electrically isolated sections... not at every fitting.
 
Smart $ said:
Bonding of metal water piping systems is required and not based on "likely to become energized" as other metal piping systems. While such a water piping system is mostly metal, I don't believe it should be considered a metal water piping system under Code context and intent. IMO, the Code context means a water piping system which has electrical continuity throughout, with perhaps only a few electrically isolated sections... not at every fitting.
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So if you were the inspector at a job you would require bonding jumper at every water pipe coupling?
 
Are there all metal versions, or otherwise electrically continuous versions, of compression couplings available? The ones I've seen on jobsites appeared to be all metal...or at the very least, electrically continuous.
 
edward said:
I have emailed the manufacturer today to see if they are listed to carry electrical fault current.
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I would ask why would they be listed to carry fault current? It is not required nor is any standard plumbing fitting that I am aware of.


If I was an inspector faced with this I am sure of only one thing. I would try to pass this call off to someone above me.
 
It seems you are in a tough spot.

Take this typical compression fitting,

514DBwHvrWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


I think we all can agree it will carry as much current as the pipe connected to it but I don't believe it is listed to do so. It seems if you were require a listing for the Sharkbite fittings you would be on shaky ground.
 
edward said:
At least this one doesn't seem sto have electrical continuity.

View attachment 7456
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Perhaps I was of the wrong impression regarding the image in the OP after seeing this cutaway view. If the OP coupling is of the same or similar design, it is quick-connect coupling... and if correct, no [additional] compression involved. Just insert and go.

It is possible the grab ring could be metal and electrically continuous with the metal body... but it doesn't appear so judging from the image.
 
iwire said:
It seems you are in a tough spot.

Take this typical compression fitting,

514DBwHvrWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


I think we all can agree it will carry as much current as the pipe connected to it but I don't believe it is listed to do so. It seems if you were require a listing for the Sharkbite fittings you would be on shaky ground.
Click to expand...

At least with this fitting we know it is all metal construction and the pipes connected to it do have electrical continuity.

This is not my installation, one of the guys brought the shark fitting to the class and I started thinking about it.
 
edward said:
How would you enforce water pipe bonding if the entire or part of the plumbing is done with these fittings? Use a bonding strap between each plumbing pipe or since each plumbing pipe is isolated from the next then it is not a complete piping system? Or since the pipes are isolated from each other then what is the likelihood of any portion of the pipe becoming energized to cause shock hazard.
View attachment 7455

I have emailed the manufacturer today to see if they are listed to carry electrical fault current.
Click to expand...

IMO- not a complete "metallic" piping system. What if you had a galvanized rigid piping system but they used non metallic fittings - may not be a wise plumbing decision but as far as the electrician is concerned not a complete metallic system. One more reason why we are required to make grounding electrode connection within 5 feet of entrance to the building.
 
edward said:
How would you enforce water pipe bonding if the entire or part of the plumbing is done with these fittings? Use a bonding strap between each plumbing pipe or since each plumbing pipe is isolated from the next then it is not a complete piping system? Or since the pipes are isolated from each other then what is the likelihood of any portion of the pipe becoming energized to cause shock hazard.
View attachment 7455

I have emailed the manufacturer today to see if they are listed to carry electrical fault current.
Click to expand...

They have those in plastic too.

Better get the specs on this also. ;)

safe_flo.jpg

We bond the water line(s). That is all the NEC requires.
 
kwired said:
IMO- not a complete "metallic" piping system. What if you had a galvanized rigid piping system but they used non metallic fittings - may not be a wise plumbing decision but as far as the electrician is concerned not a complete metallic system. One more reason why we are required to make grounding electrode connection within 5 feet of entrance to the building.
Click to expand...

The 5' is to keep objectionable current off the interior water lines.
 
edward said:
How would you enforce water pipe bonding if the entire or part of the plumbing is done with these fittings? Use a bonding strap between each plumbing pipe or since each plumbing pipe is isolated from the next then it is not a complete piping system? Or since the pipes are isolated from each other then what is the likelihood of any portion of the pipe becoming energized to cause shock hazard.
View attachment 7455

I have emailed the manufacturer today to see if they are listed to carry electrical fault current.
Click to expand...

Back to your question. I'll have to see if these are listed for repairs only or for both old and new work.

Plumbing code:
102.10.2 Minor repairs.

Minor repairs to structures may be made without application or notice to the building official. Such repairs shall not include the cutting away of any wall, partition or portion thereof, the removal or cutting of any structural beam or load bearing support, or the removal or change of any required means of egress, or rearrangement of parts of a structure affecting the egress requirements; nor shall ordinary repairs include addition to, alteration of, replacement or relocation of any standpipe, water supply, sewer, drainage, drain leader, gas, soil, waste, vent or similar piping, electric wiring or mechanical or other work affecting public health or general safety.

Now does breaking the continuity of the metal water lines affect general safety? If so then maybe jumpers would be required!
 
jxofaltrds said:
They have those in plastic too.

Better get the specs on this also. ;)

View attachment 7457

We bond the water line(s). That is all the NEC requires.
Click to expand...

I agree we bond water pipes. But if the couplings in question are used then the whole piping system is not bonded only the portion where we (the electrician) has installed the bonding wire or the GEC. Do you as an inspector require bonding jumper between each pipe bypassing the coupling?
 
edward said:
I agree we bond water pipes. But if the couplings in question are used then the whole piping system is not bonded only the portion where we (the electrician) has installed the bonding wire or the GEC. Do you as an inspector require bonding jumper between each pipe bypassing the coupling?
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The Electrical Inspector must pass the inspection. Since the fittings "•Meet UPC, IPC and cUPC requirements." it would go to the AHJ to decide where if any 'jumpers' would be required.

I have some SharkBites around. I'll have to look at them and see what I think about the electrical continuity.
 
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PS This is what the AHJ would be looking at:

114.1 Approved materials, products, assemblies and methods of construction.

Materials, products, assemblies and methods of construction approved by the building official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval. Materials, devices, products and assemblies listed in directories indicated in Table 114.3 are authorized for use when:


1. Approved by the building official;
2. Installed/used in accordance with the listing;
3. The listing is current; and,
4. The extent of the listing does not include in its scope, elements of design, construction or installation otherwise in conflict with the provisions of this code such as fire-resistance, structural design, etc.
 
Here's a quick-connect (i.e. push-to-fit) connection system seems to claim effective bonding: PermaLynx.

"Electrical Grounding: Electrical grounding for a PermaLynx system works on the same principles as a sweat/solder system. Ground the tubing system in accordance with local code requirements."

3383_270_252_80.jpeg
 
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