POCO rejects service

[kwired]

Several years ago I had a low income housing facility that wanted to consolidate two buildings with four apartments each plus a house meter on each to just one meter so they would only receive one electric bill instead of ten bills. Tenants did not pay electric bills the owner did.

Each building was served with 200 amp service conductor, which after doing some load calculations maybe should have been a little larger, but I'd almost bet the real demand was still under 200. The POCO engineer involved on this one wanted an 800 amp meter socket installed, two four inch conduits plus two spare four inch conduits between the meter and the pole. His justification was there were 4 100 amp main breakers supplied by a 200 amp conductor - plus a house main that he for some reason didn't include with his line of logic.

Keep in mind this install was already about 25-30 years old at the time, the apartments were all electric but showed no signs it was undersized. It was 120/240 single phase and only supplied with 37.5 or maybe 50 kVA transformer. Couldn't convince him the fact all this was well under size of what he wanted already and lasted as long as it had is a pretty good sign the load just isn't there.

On top of that the meters were indoors in the mechanical area, something that POCO no longer allowed for new installs, so you would think they would like to have gotten them out of there, but I think he was looking at no real change in average consumption but a loss of monthly minimum charges on 9 meters.

Most any other POCO in the region would have just put a CT meter at their pole, slugged the meters in the meter center and left everything else as is - which would have left me pretty much out of the picture altogether, but still was best interest for the customer.

 

[peter d]

ES/UI are very progressive utilities imo, that is for sure. Regarding the UG conductors and services, my understanding (though I could be wrong) is that with Eversource requires electricians to run their own conductors rather than POCO bringing their own to the meter.

:happyno: CL&P requires a 3" minimum conduit to the meter, then they pull in the conductors and energize it that day.

Not sure about UI, but if so that might also explain the rigid requirement. POCO engineers are simply repeating what they believe the NEC mandates or actually does mandate if the electrician is responsible for that portion of work.

UI requires the contractor to supply the wire, but they assist the contractor with the pull using their winch on the bucket truck, and they stay on the jobsite and energize that day once the electrician has landed everything in the meter socket. The do not allow the contractor to pull the conductors without them being onsite.

 

[peter d]

Id try and reasonably fight it. CT (and todays country in general) is full of way to many complacent people which leads to being screwed over at every corner. UI needs to back this up.

Oh please, does everything have to be some moral crusade? :roll:

 

[mbrooke]

:happyno: CL&P requires a 3" minimum conduit to the meter, then they pull in the conductors and energize it that day.



UI requires the contractor to supply the wire, but they assist the contractor with the pull using their winch on the bucket truck, and they stay on the jobsite and energize that day once the electrician has landed everything in the meter socket. The do not allow the contractor to pull the conductors without them being onsite.

Ahhh, ok, my bad I had it mixed up :ashamed1: Thank you for clearing it up

Oh please, does everything have to be some moral crusade? :roll:

Would you like to follow rules that don't exist? Anytime someone enforces anything there must be something in writing or law to back it up.

 

[iwire]

Oh please, does everything have to be some moral crusade? :roll:

Yes, absolutely every authority is evil from teachers to electrical inspectors. :lol:

 

[K8MHZ]

I just looked at the spec sheet for meter installation on our POCO's web site. It's a 60+ page pdf, so I will just state the highlights about the multi-meter units.

All customer load conductors shall exit the bottom of the meter socket directly below the associated meter.

The trough shall not be used as a raceway.

They have a wiring diagram that shows the POCOs conductors coming directly into the non metered connection area either from above or below.

If I could copy and paste just one page of the pdf I would.

 

[kwired]

I just looked at the spec sheet for meter installation on our POCO's web site. It's a 60+ page pdf, so I will just state the highlights about the multi-meter units.

All customer load conductors shall exit the bottom of the meter socket directly below the associated meter.

The trough shall not be used as a raceway.

They have a wiring diagram that shows the POCOs conductors coming directly into the non metered connection area either from above or below.

If I could copy and paste just one page of the pdf I would.

Use "snipping tool" and post a jpg image of that page.

 

[GoldDigger]

Or you can use the print function of the viewer to print a single page and then select the "print to PDF" virtual printer installed on most Windows or OS X . machines.

 

[K8MHZ]

Use "snipping tool" and post a jpg image of that page.

I don't know what that is.

 

[K8MHZ]

Or you can use the print function of the viewer to print a single page and then select the "print to PDF" virtual printer installed on most Windows or OS X . machines.

Will a pdf show up as an image on this site? I will give it a try.

View attachment 14988

 

[mbrooke]

Yes, absolutely every authority is evil from teachers to electrical inspectors. :lol:

This case not a grand conspiracy, we simply need conformation of what is being enforced. For example, every electrical inspector has to back up their red tags with code.

 

[kwired]

I don't know what that is.

Are you using Windows computer? It is a app that allows you to select either a portion or up to the entire contents displayed on your screen regardless of what they come from and convert it to an image file. I think it is included with Windows 7 and is free in the app store in Windows 8 and 10. I imagine Apple would have something similar.

Will a pdf show up as an image on this site? I will give it a try.

View attachment 14988

No you need to convert what you want us to see to a jpg file, otherwise the pdf can be linked to but we would have to open it separately instead of viewing it in post.

 

[Smart $]

Here's a jpg saved directly in Acrobat Pro from original pdf...



Photobucket is currently down for maintenance. Will work on another means to display full size in browser...

 

[Smart $]

Can y'all see this pic?
[LINK DELETED]

Never mind... Tried to see it myself as another user in another browser window and could not.

 

[Smart $]

Found site that hosts images for free and no account required. Yes, I was prompted to create an account, but doing so was not required.

http://postimg.org

 

[growler]

In our modern world if you deviate from the standard way of doing things in any way it tends to set off alarm bells. This install requires someone to actually make a decision if it's acceptable and when a decision is made someone can be held responsible ( people don't like that).

That's why it's best to do things the way they are used to seeing them. To come in the top of the meter can may have been a little more work but a lot less confusion.

They have a wiring diagram that shows the POCOs conductors coming directly into the non metered connection area either from above or below.

I think there was a wiring diagram on the third tablet that Moses brought down off the mountain, it was the eleventh commandment.

But are there ever special circumstances where they will allow a side entrace of cable since their only concern is power theft and that really won't hold up in this instance? Since they are going to allowed the OP to use a side entrance where metered and nonmetered power will never touch I think they can have some flexability.

If laws weren't ment to be broken we would still be drinking over taxed tea.

 

[K8MHZ]

I think there was a wiring diagram on the third tablet that Moses brought down off the mountain, it was the eleventh commandment.

But are there ever special circumstances where they will allow a side entrace of cable since their only concern is power theft and that really won't hold up in this instance? Since they are going to allowed the OP to use a side entrance where metered and nonmetered power will never touch I think they can have some flexability.

If laws weren't ment to be broken we would still be drinking over taxed tea.

If we have a deviation from the norm, we have to get a field engineer to come out, look things over and give us a decision. They are pretty good folks, use common sense and usually it only takes a couple days to get them on site.

 

[growler]

If we have a deviation from the norm, we have to get a field engineer to come out, look things over and give us a decision. They are pretty good folks, use common sense and usually it only takes a couple days to get them on site.

I think that's pretty much what has happened for the OP. A call to the engineer could have saved some time early on.

If at all possible it best to just paint by the numbers.