Policing the industry

[powerslave]

This may be a touchy subject, but has anyone else had to step up the policing of their area in regards to handymen and sidejobbers doing installations without permits? I know times are tough and believe me, I wish I didn't have to spend money on contractors insurance, bonds, registration fees, or my customers having to pay for permits. But the fact is it's the law. In the past I've only had to turn in a handful of homeowners for not getting permits or having work done by unlicensed installers. But the last couple of months I've had to turn in over a dozen people. Has anyone else noticed a spike in the number of violations in their area?

Case in point: I recieved a call last night to look at a hot tub installation in the area. I made an appointment for this morning. When I got there a handyman service was already there and performing the installation. The homeowner apologized for not calling to cancel the appointment. I asked if he had a permit. All I got back was a blank stare. I asked the handyman if he was licensed and registered in the municipality to do electrical installations. He admitted he was not. I have no choice but to call on Monday and turn him in.

 

[Rewire]

This may be a touchy subject, but has anyone else had to step up the policing of their area in regards to handymen and sidejobbers doing installations without permits? I know times are tough and believe me, I wish I didn't have to spend money on contractors insurance, bonds, registration fees, or my customers having to pay for permits. But the fact is it's the law. In the past I've only had to turn in a handful of homeowners for not getting permits or having work done by unlicensed installers. But the last couple of months I've had to turn in over a dozen people. Has anyone else noticed a spike in the number of violations in their area?

Case in point: I recieved a call last night to look at a hot tub installation in the area. I made an appointment for this morning. When I got there a handyman service was already there and performing the installation. The homeowner apologized for not calling to cancel the appointment. I asked if he had a permit. All I got back was a blank stare. I asked the handyman if he was licensed and registered in the municipality to do electrical installations. He admitted he was not. I have no choice but to call on Monday and turn him in.

First I hope you billed the customer second don't loose one minutes sleep for turning this guy in .
Remember he is the one breaking the law not you.

 

[Goroon]

Licenses make a high risk work safer.

Licenses make a high risk work safer.

Not just for you, but also with those working around, with or after you.
Evaluate the seriousness of hazards.
Decide if you need to take action.
Don?t ignore signs of trouble.


Enough said

 

[480sparky]

Gee. I can't image why you would feel bad about turning someone in for breaking the law. I mean, what would the alternative be?

Oh.......... right. That! I forgot.​

 

[jumper]

the fact is it's the law. I have no choice but to call on Monday and turn him in.

I agree.

First I hope you billed the customer second don't loose one minutes sleep for turning this guy in .
Remember he is the one breaking the law not you.

Ditto.

IMHO you are actually doing the HO a favor, trying to save him from stupid.

 

[powerslave]

Gee. I can't image why you would feel bad about turning someone in for breaking the law. I mean, what would the alternative be?

I don't feel bad I feel frustrated. The building depts. just don't have the manpower to police the building trades so as licensed contractors we have to do it ourselves. It's up to us. I don't have the least bit problem with that.

I guess in the good times when there's a lot of work it may be easier not to notice or care. The truth is we need to be more vigilant at all times. Before someone get's hurt.

 

[powerslave]

IMHO you are actually doing the HO a favor, trying to save him from stupid.

We have it posted on our website about the importance of hiring a licensed contractor. We warn people to "beware of those who know just enough to be dangerous".:wink:

 

[chris1971]

Turn them in

Turn them in

I turn in "handyman" who do electrical work in the twin cities (MN). I also get a fair amount of calls from people who want my company to come in and fix what the handyman did incorrectly.

 

[powerslave]

I turn in "handyman" who do electrical work in the twin cities (MN). I also get a fair amount of calls from people who want my company to come in and fix what the handyman did incorrectly.

That's another point we make on our website. The countless times we have to repair what handymen and unlicensed individuals install.

 

[Minuteman]

Bring up another questions. What about licensed guys that don't pull permits?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This is a touchy topic, especially when it comes to licensees who do not pull permits.
Where does one draw the line? I believe it is up to the individual to make that choice.

Whenever times get tough, this topic becomes the number 1 topic at meetings I attend. When times are booming, it almost disappears.

I think that consistency of enforcement and dealing with this topic is the only way to slow it down, it will never be eliminated.


P.S.
Our licensing board handed out 2- $25,000 fines for unpermitted/unlicensed work this past Tuesday. That will get attention fast. They also stopped the job until a licensed electrician files the work. The builder may have learned his lesson.

 

[powerslave]

Bring up another questions. What about licensed guys that don't pull permits?

No difference. The law is the law.


The thing is, if one has spent the time and money to get licensed and insured and paid all the municipal fees and bonds to work in the different towns, cities, and villages in ones area why take a chance and not get a permit?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

no difference. The law is the law.


The thing is, if one has spent the time and money to get licensed and insured and paid all the municipal fees and bonds to work in the different towns, cities, and villages in ones area why take a chance and not get a permit?

money!!!

 

[augie47]

talk about touchy The great State of TN advises the inspectors that if they have no permit they can not go on the property. So, if we see some jack-leg stringing wire we wave and drive on. In essence the only inspection is on contractors who obey the rules and pull permits or on new construction where there is no power and POCO requires inspections before hooking those up.

 

[Minuteman]

No that way here Augie. They go about any where the want. But there is still a lot of unpermitted work that goes on. Fines get handed out, but I compete against it all the time.

 

[KevinVost]

Our AHJ has established an enforcement division. They investigate any complaints made about work with out permits. Our field inspectors have been instructed to stop at any site, any time, to check permits (an inspection request is not needed to have the inspector stop, since most inspectors have an area they inspect and are fimiliar with, most know the new jobs and will check up on the job once they see work going on). To that end, our administrative code was written with a section called "Right of Entry", which allows inspectors to enter any property, anytime, to perform thier job, or to investigate complaints or unsafe conditions (if they are visable from public view) which is the cause to enter.

 

[Minuteman]

Kevin, do y'all have an Army of inspectors?

 

[480sparky]

talk about touchy The great State of TN advises the inspectors that if they have no permit they can not go on the property. .........

So if I rob a bank in Tennessee with an unregistered gun, the cops can't enter the bank to arrest me?:grin:

 

[KevinVost]

Kevin, do y'all have an Army of inspectors?

Not an army, but we have a total of 120 +/- a few, but we cover several hundered (maybe thouseand) square miles. Our average ticket load right now is about 800 inspections per day, on the low side for us, on the high side we have had 4000 inspections in one day (back in 2004). Vegas is BIG!

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Our AHJ has established an enforcement division. They investigate any complaints made about work with out permits. Our field inspectors have been instructed to stop at any site, any time, to check permits (an inspection request is not needed to have the inspector stop, since most inspectors have an area they inspect and are fimiliar with, most know the new jobs and will check up on the job once they see work going on). To that end, our administrative code was written with a section called "Right of Entry", which allows inspectors to enter any property, anytime, to perform thier job, or to investigate complaints or unsafe conditions (if they are visable from public view) which is the cause to enter.

I know each State has their own laws which pertain to this issue.

In NYS, the law deals with this in 2 ways.

1. Public property. If the work or violation is visible and is deemed a life or health threatening issue, a stop work order or violation can be issued. One had better be sure of what he/she is issuing, as the consequences could be pretty bad for the official if he is wrong.

2. Private property. Without permission from the property owner to enter the property, it would be considered trespassing for any inspector, including a building inspector to enter the property.
Without the property owner's permission, a warrant would have to be issued. A judge will not issue a warrant unless he is totally convinced that the BO is absolutely sure there is a bonafide threat to life or limb.
This falls under the protection of privacy in NYS.